Author Topic: Electric RIMS tube question  (Read 645 times)

Offline factory

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Electric RIMS tube question
« on: November 07, 2013, 09:05:10 AM »
I don't know if this matters or not, so I'll ask:

When recirculating through an electric RIMS tube, does the direction of flow matter?  i.e. should the wort flow from the sensor side to the heating element side, or is the reverse true?

Or does it matter at all?

Offline ibru

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 10:38:31 AM »
The systems that I've seen, including mine, have the sensor after the water comes out of the mash tun before the element. If you do it the other way, you only get the temp of the water your putting back into the mash tun and not your mash temp.

Offline factory

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 10:40:37 AM »
That's what I thought, but I saw one hooked up the other way (mash tun to the heating element first) and thought htat was strange.  My brain couldn't reconcile this, so I had to ask.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 10:50:13 AM »
The sensor MUST be placed downstream of the heat input point. It DOES NOT matter what the temperature of the wort from the tun is. It only matters that you are heating the wort to your target temperature and not overheating it. Remember that the enzymes are in the wort, not the mash.  If you try to control your heat input by observing the wort temperature coming out of the tun, you will likely severely overheat your wort as it passes through the heater.  That will likely denature the wort enzymes and leave you with a starchy wort that does not ferment.  (You don't have to ask how I learned that bone-headed lesson ;-)  )

If you want to know the temperature of wort coming from the tun, insert an extra thermometer there.
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Offline factory

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 11:12:55 AM »
The sensor MUST be placed downstream of the heat input point. It DOES NOT matter what the temperature of the wort from the tun is. It only matters that you are heating the wort to your target temperature and not overheating it. Remember that the enzymes are in the wort, not the mash.  If you try to control your heat input by observing the wort temperature coming out of the tun, you will likely severely overheat your wort as it passes through the heater.  That will likely denature the wort enzymes and leave you with a starchy wort that does not ferment.  (You don't have to ask how I learned that bone-headed lesson ;-)  )

If you want to know the temperature of wort coming from the tun, insert an extra thermometer there.

Thanks for the explaination! 

Offline dak0415

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 11:27:19 AM »
The sensor MUST be placed downstream of the heat input point. It DOES NOT matter what the temperature of the wort from the tun is. It only matters that you are heating the wort to your target temperature and not overheating it. Remember that the enzymes are in the wort, not the mash.  If you try to control your heat input by observing the wort temperature coming out of the tun, you will likely severely overheat your wort as it passes through the heater.  That will likely denature the wort enzymes and leave you with a starchy wort that does not ferment.  (You don't have to ask how I learned that bone-headed lesson ;-)  )

If you want to know the temperature of wort coming from the tun, insert an extra thermometer there.
+1 On Martin's explanation
When you place the sensor downstream of the heat source, the temperature WILL overshoot slightly and that will help to bring your tun up to ideal temp faster.  Use a PID type controller, a RANCO does not react fast enough to keep the wort from overheating. As your wort gets closer to your programmed temp, the overshoot will become less and eventually stabilize withing .5 degrees or so. Also orient your rims tube so there will not be any bubbles or air pockets in the tube (Another lesson for another time!;-) )
Dave Koenig
Anything worth doing - is worth overdoing!

Offline factory

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 06:44:24 AM »
The sensor MUST be placed downstream of the heat input point. It DOES NOT matter what the temperature of the wort from the tun is. It only matters that you are heating the wort to your target temperature and not overheating it. Remember that the enzymes are in the wort, not the mash.  If you try to control your heat input by observing the wort temperature coming out of the tun, you will likely severely overheat your wort as it passes through the heater.  That will likely denature the wort enzymes and leave you with a starchy wort that does not ferment.  (You don't have to ask how I learned that bone-headed lesson ;-)  )

If you want to know the temperature of wort coming from the tun, insert an extra thermometer there.
+1 On Martin's explanation
When you place the sensor downstream of the heat source, the temperature WILL overshoot slightly and that will help to bring your tun up to ideal temp faster.  Use a PID type controller, a RANCO does not react fast enough to keep the wort from overheating. As your wort gets closer to your programmed temp, the overshoot will become less and eventually stabilize withing .5 degrees or so. Also orient your rims tube so there will not be any bubbles or air pockets in the tube (Another lesson for another time!;-) )

Good stuff, thanks!  I'm planning on mounting it vertically to my Top Tier Stand with the element at the bottom and the sensor on the top.

Offline dak0415

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 06:56:06 AM »
Good stuff, thanks!  I'm planning on mounting it vertically to my Top Tier Stand with the element at the bottom and the sensor on the top.

Whose RIMS tube are you going to use, or are you building your own?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 07:32:32 AM by dak0415 »
Dave Koenig
Anything worth doing - is worth overdoing!

Offline factory

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Re: Electric RIMS tube question
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 10:27:09 AM »

Whose RIMS tube are you going to use, or are you building your own?
[/quote]

This one.

http://www.brewhardware.com/rimsherms-parts/169-newrims