Author Topic: Water profile and IPAs  (Read 1836 times)

Offline quest4watneys

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Water profile and IPAs
« on: November 17, 2013, 02:13:12 PM »
So I've gotten some great info regarding RO water now I'd like to put that into practice. What kind of additions would I need to make to RO water for a DIPA?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 02:36:04 PM »
So I've gotten some great info regarding RO water now I'd like to put that into practice. What kind of additions would I need to make to RO water for a DIPA?

Well, I feel that too many DIPAs are overly sweet, so I mash them low, ~ 149F, add a lb or so of cane sugar to dry it out a bit, and use gypsum (calcium sulfate) to emphasize the hoppiness.  Have you downloaded Bru'nWater yet?  If so, I use the Pale Ale profile in it. If not, you could maybe add a teaspoon or two of gypsum to your mash water as a starting point. The great thing about Bru'nWater is it helps you predict pH pretty accurately, which is critical to make a good all-grain beer. So I add gypsum and sometimes some lactic acid in the software until I get to a good pH, add those final amounts to the mash, and have pretty good results.
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Offline denny

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 03:01:59 PM »
Get your sulfate up around 250-300 ppm.
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Offline quest4watneys

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »
I have downloaded Bru'n which brings up another question. I can pull a water profile from my local water company's website but it seems to be lacking some of the required info needed for the input. Am I missing something or do I need to request a more detailed report?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 05:40:49 PM »
Honestly that's where RO water comes in for me. Indy water is not great for brewing most beers. RO is a nearly mineral-free base to build on. I use 100% RO, so I go to the "Water Input Tab" (#3) and look for the dilution percentage drop=-down. Set it to 100%. Then from there you can use the pale ale profile to find your target mineral levels.
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Offline Three

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 05:56:26 PM »
Honestly that's where RO water comes in for me. Indy water is not great for brewing most beers. RO is a nearly mineral-free base to build on. I use 100% RO, so I go to the "Water Input Tab" (#3) and look for the dilution percentage drop=-down. Set it to 100%. Then from there you can use the pale ale profile to find your target mineral levels.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 05:56:42 PM »
Honestly that's where RO water comes in for me. Indy water is not great for brewing most beers. RO is a nearly mineral-free base to build on. I use 100% RO, so I go to the "Water Input Tab" (#3) and look for the dilution percentage drop=-down. Set it to 100%. Then from there you can use the pale ale profile to find your target mineral levels.

This is good advice.
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Offline quest4watneys

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 07:29:22 PM »
Honestly that's where RO water comes in for me. Indy water is not great for brewing most beers. RO is a nearly mineral-free base to build on. I use 100% RO, so I go to the "Water Input Tab" (#3) and look for the dilution percentage drop=-down. Set it to 100%. Then from there you can use the pale ale profile to find your target mineral levels.

Thanks for the advice. I set the dilution % to 100, the water type to RO and the style to pale ale. I've got my water amounts in as well. So now it's just a matter of inputting different minerals/amounts until I land within the desired range, correct? My apologies for all the questions but this is an aspect I've never tinkered with before. I usually buy bottled water or toss some campden tablets in my overly chlorinated tap water :0)
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Offline thisoneguy

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 08:54:24 PM »


Thanks for the advice. I set the dilution % to 100, the water type to RO and the style to pale ale. I've got my water amounts in as well. So now it's just a matter of inputting different minerals/amounts until I land within the desired range, correct? My apologies for all the questions but this is an aspect I've never tinkered with before. I usually buy bottled water or toss some campden tablets in my overly chlorinated tap water :0)


That's about right. I've found Bru'n Water to be very easy to use. My dark beers were much better than my lighter colored beers.... it turns out that my water is moderately alkaline and somewhat variable, so building from RO has helped me improve both quality and consistency. Also, my mash pH when building up from RO is always within 0.1 of what's predicted by Bru'n Water. YMMV.

Edited to add: I really like the Pale Ale profile, but have only used it for a APA and AIPA.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 08:56:13 PM by thisoneguy »

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 06:49:44 PM »
Interesting that brewing IPAs with RO was mentioned. John Palmer and I visited a brewery in Indy yesterday and all they use is RO water....and nothing else.  No minerals, no acids, nothing. 

On top of that, they have been monitoring their mash pH and it was at 5.4. However, they were performing that measurement at mash temp! Needless to say, the true (room temp) pH was a bit higher than that. Both John and I could detect a slight tannic bit, but it wasn't too bad. 

Needless to say, we recommended that they at least bring the calcium content up to help lower the mash pH and supply that needed ion.  I mentioned that story about my trial of using 100 ppm sulfate and its lack of hop character and my preference of using 300 ppm. Ultimately, John suggested that 200 ppm is a good starting point. I think that is an appropriate starting point for any pale ale brewer. Take it higher when you are ready. 

PS: that brewer's pH meter had recently been thrown away. The probe's bulb had broken. I wonder why?  ;-D
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Offline quest4watneys

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 07:46:53 PM »
The DIPA recipe I got was from a brewery in Broad Ripple. I know they use RO but I didn't ask what they did to it. Here's what I got starting with RO and a pale ale profile to achieve a 'balance' all per/gal:

1.70g Gypsum
0.45g Epsom Salt
0.45g Baking Soda
0.50g Calcium Chloride

Anything look out of whack?
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Offline ccfoo242

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 08:06:43 PM »
Look at the phosphate to chloride ratio also. I've had good luck at 2 to 1 or slightly higher.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 08:08:56 PM »
Look at the phosphate to chloride ratio also. I've had good luck at 2 to 1 or slightly higher.


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Sulfate to chloride? You can go higher than 2.
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Offline denny

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 09:31:24 AM »
Look at the phosphate to chloride ratio also. I've had good luck at 2 to 1 or slightly higher.


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I think you mean sulfate:chloride ratio.  I've come to the conclusion that the ratio doesn't matter as much as the absolute numbers.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water profile and IPAs
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 11:52:30 AM »
Look at the phosphate to chloride ratio also. I've had good luck at 2 to 1 or slightly higher.


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I think you mean sulfate:chloride ratio.  I've come to the conclusion that the ratio doesn't matter as much as the absolute numbers.
denny is correct. If you went with the published values for Munich, they would be making hoppy beers. The values are pretty low for Munich water, so think about what you can taste. There are some guidelines in the Water book IIRC.
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