[redbeerman]

I think you want something like this for the malt bill.
75% dark Munich
20 % Pils
4% CaraMunich II
1 % carafa for color

Decoction if you wish, or steps at 133F for 10 min, 144F for 40 min., 158 - 160F for 20. Mash out.

Water should be from Martin's NHC talk, Munich profile.

18 to 20 IBUs noble hops of your choice.

I would use either 833 (Ayinger), 835 lager X (rhymes with Kloster Andechs), or 830. Ferment at 48 to 50F. Lager at 32F for 6 weeks.

You might conclude I am going to brew one soon and have been researching, and will split it between 833 and 835. There is a recipe on Weyermann's FAQ page, that is similar, but has 8.5% CaraMunich II, and that is too much for my taste.

Hope this helps. Dunkel is a rewarding beer to brew and drink. The last one I did was 80% Dark Munich, 20 % Pils, maybe a touch of Carafa for color. That makes one more like what is served in Franconia, so a little more dry.

That's pretty much what I did Jeff.  I used 830 for the yeast.  We will taste the results in about 5 weeks.

[bluesman]

I'll try to remember to dig mine up, Ron.  I've been working on something like Ayinger dunkel for years.

I'd like to see it Denny.

I think you want something like this for the malt bill.
75% dark Munich
20 % Pils
4% CaraMunich II
1 % carafa for color

Decoction if you wish, or steps at 133F for 10 min, 144F for 40 min., 158 - 160F for 20. Mash out.

Water should be from Martin's NHC talk, Munich profile.

18 to 20 IBUs noble hops of your choice.

I would use either 833 (Ayinger), 835 lager X (rhymes with Kloster Andechs), or 830. Ferment at 48 to 50F. Lager at 32F for 6 weeks.

You might conclude I am going to brew one soon and have been researching, and will split it between 833 and 835. There is a recipe on Weyermann's FAQ page, that is similar, but has 8.5% CaraMunich II, and that is too much for my taste.

Hope this helps. Dunkel is a rewarding beer to brew and drink. The last one I did was 80% Dark Munich, 20 % Pils, maybe a touch of Carafa for color. That makes one more like what is served in Franconia, so a little more dry.

I like this recipe Jeff, although I'm on/off the fence with the Caramunich addition.

I'm definitely using my yeast slurry of WLP830 from my Schwarty. I have a lot of Best Dark Munich 2 and Best Pils.

Martin - what is your suggestion for the ppm levels of calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, etc...?

Thanks for all of the good responses!

[denny]

Mine looks a lot like everyone else's.  I've also done a dark Czech lager that has a bit more complicated grist.  Here's my ;atest Ayinger attempt.

#366 Dunkel

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       11.63
Anticipated OG:          1.054    Plato:             13.27
Anticipated SRM:          15.3
Anticipated IBU:          25.5
Brewhouse Efficiency:       73 %
Wort Boil Time:             70    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.50    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    7.25    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.041    SG          10.18  Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 77.4     9.00 lbs. Munich Malt                   Germany        1.037     10
 17.2     2.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.038      2
  4.3     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 40                 France         1.034     40
  1.1     0.13 lbs. Carafa                        Germany        1.030    400

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.00 oz.    Mt. Hood 2009                     Pellet   5.20  23.6  70 min.
  0.25 oz.    Mt. Hood 2009                     Pellet   5.20   1.9  20 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.50 Unit(s)Whirlfloc                      Fining     5 Min.(boil)
  0.50 Tsp    Yeast Nutrient                 Other     10 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 2782 Staro Prague


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs:   11.63
Total Water Qts:   10.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    2.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.13
Grain Temp:        65.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc                   0     90    148     148   Infuse   171       10.00   0.86
mashout                0      0    159     159   Infuse   212        2.56   1.08


Total Water Qts:           12.56 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            3.14 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      4.07 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

[krebsy]

I've brewed a few of these and my preference is for 80-90% Weyermann Munich II, with the rest being pils and just enough Carafa Special to get the color where you want it.  I choose to leave out any Cara malts, but a dash of CaraMunich might serve to boost the toasty characteristics a bit. Noble hops to hit 20 IBU or so. I usually add a half oz or so hop charge at 20-15 minutes for a tiny hint of hop flavor.  WLP833 makes a nice dunkel and is great to repitch into a doppelbock.

I think exactly like you! Perhaps we are doppelgangers?

Great minds drink alike!

[narcout]

Here's one I brewed earlier this year that took first place at the SoCal Regional Homebrew Championship (Tip: I don't think category 4 gets a lot of entries).

10 lbs. Munich malt (10L)
.5 lbs. Belgian pilsner (I meant to use 100% Munich, but I realized on brew day I was a half pound short)
.38 lbs. Carafa II

1.25 oz. Hallertaur - 60 min
.5 oz. Hallertaur - 20 min

Wyeast 2352 - Munich lager II

Single infusion mash at 153 degrees

I brewed with 100% distilled water and added 5 grams of calcium chloride and 3 grams of gypsum to the mash.  The mash and sparge pH were both 5.3 (I did not mash the Carafa but added it to the sparge).

I had read that people were having issues fermenting this yeast at lower temperatures so I kept it between 53 and 54 before letting it rise into the low 60's for a D-rest.

This is more or less Jamil's recipe from Brewing Classic Styles (except for the pils malt sub and the yeast selection).

[majorvices]

Here's one I brewed earlier this year that took first place at the SoCal Regional Homebrew Championship (Tip: I don't think category 4 gets a lot of entries).

10 lbs. Munich malt (10L)
.5 lbs. Belgian pilsner (I meant to use 100% Munich, but I realized on brew day I was a half pound short)
.38 lbs. Carafa II

1.25 oz. Hallertaur - 60 min
.5 oz. Hallertaur - 20 min

Wyeast 2352 - Munich lager II

Single infusion mash at 153 degrees

I brewed with 100% distilled water and added 5 grams of calcium chloride and 3 grams of gypsum to the mash.  The mash and sparge pH were both 5.3 (I did not mash the Carafa but added it to the sparge).

I had read that people were having issues fermenting this yeast at lower temperatures so I kept it between 53 and 54 before letting it rise into the low 60's for a D-rest.

This is more or less Jamil's recipe from Brewing Classic Styles (except for the pils malt sub and the yeast selection).

I would have probably gone .37 lbs carafa but aside from that looks solid.

[narcout]

I would have probably gone .37 lbs carafa but aside from that looks solid.

Yeah, I guess that looks a bit weird.

I'm using the old version of Beersmith, and .38 lbs. is how the program represents 6 ounces of malt.

[majorvices]

Haha! Just being your Saturday morning smart ass.

[riceral]

I would have probably gone .37 lbs carafa but aside from that looks solid.

Yeah, I guess that looks a bit weird.

I'm using the old version of Beersmith, and .38 lbs. is how the program represents 6 ounces of malt.

When I plug ounces into Beersmith, I use a fraction. For 6 oz, I enter 6/16 lb and it converts in the recipe.

[The Professor]

As with a good doppelbock, the pils is for the enzymes. You want to be sure the beer dries out. Sweet german beers suck. I think a lot of american interpretations totally strike out here.

I agree.  I've yet to taste a single American one that comes even close to the imports.

[quattlebaum]

I keep it simple. It depends on what srm I can get munich at. Last one was 96% munich 8 srm and 4% carafa2. 20ibus hallertauer 60 min 3 ibus hallertauer 20min. 1.054 OG 1.016 FG  wish it would have finished a little more. 34/70 yeast. Finial beer PH was 4.58 at room temp befor carbination.  245 alkalinity, 176 RA, 80ca, 20mg, 41na, 43cl, 36so4. Mash PH was 5.53 at room temp. I did pull a third of the grist and single decoction. I wonder why I do it sometimes:)

[majorvices]

As with a good doppelbock, the pils is for the enzymes. You want to be sure the beer dries out. Sweet german beers suck. I think a lot of american interpretations totally strike out here.

I agree.  I've yet to taste a single American one that comes even close to the imports.

I have but they are few and in between.

[The Professor]

As with a good doppelbock, the pils is for the enzymes. You want to be sure the beer dries out. Sweet german beers suck. I think a lot of american interpretations totally strike out here.

I agree.  I've yet to taste a single American one that comes even close to the imports.

I have but they are few and in between.

Which ones would you recommend? 
After thinking it over, I remembered three that I found to be pretty good... I liked the Gordon Biersch take on the style. Also, the very short lived Red Bank Brewing in NJ made very good german tasting brews back in the mid 1990s.
 And the first artisanal brewer in NJ, Vernon Valley Brewery (also known later as Clement's) made some pretty impressive German style brews on what was essentially an antique system in the late 1980s/early 90s.   VV was a great brewery that was unfortunately way ahead of it's time.

[blatz]

denny - am surprised you aren't FWH the '70 min addition'.

my last dozen or so lagers have all been FWH instead of traditional bittering hops and I find the bitterness to be more similar to the bitterness I get out of the best examples of the style(s). But i treat it as a 90 min addition (90 min boil) + the 10% additional utilization.

all of these recipes look great - I've got a bunch of hoppy beers to brew the rest of this year, and then after that was thinking a Czech dark, but maybe I'll shift to one of these instead...

[mabrungard]

Martin - what is your suggestion for the ppm levels of calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, etc...?

Although it goes against everything we brewers hold dear, I keep seeing evidence that a 40 or 50 ppm minimum calcium content may not be the best for flavor in those light European lagers. The boiled Munich profile might only have around 12 to 20 ppm Ca and the rest of the ions are low too...excepting for bicarbonate.  That profile suggests that all the flavor ions are less than 20 ppm. That evidence makes sense since those Munich beers are malt focused and there is little need for the water to impinge on that.  The same attribute applies to Pilsen water...very little flavor ion content to color the malt focus. 

The one thing that is also apparent from the boiled Munich profile is that it still has a lot of bicarbonate and the brewers would have to dose with acid malt to neutralize that component. For some beer styles, it will be a significant dose.  But I don't expect that most people would taste it. But there might be nuances from the lactic acid that do color the beer flavor.  That is why it's imperative that brewers use lactic acid or acid malt when brewing German style beers.