Author Topic: Single malt and high mash temp  (Read 3679 times)

Offline natebriscoe

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Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 11:47:43 AM »
I was looking for some feedback on using a base malt only and mashing at say 158f while using cal ale yeast. All the calculators say it should finish at 1.020-22. In my experience mashing at 156f, the lowest i can get the fg is 1.018. All of this is because i look at a recipe from a commercial brewery that is 90% base and 10% caramel and mashes at 158f, with cal ale yeast and getting to 1.016 fg. which i can't get to. Any thoughts?

Offline denny

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 11:54:19 AM »
I was looking for some feedback on using a base malt only and mashing at say 158f while using cal ale yeast. All the calculators say it should finish at 1.020-22. In my experience mashing at 156f, the lowest i can get the fg is 1.018. All of this is because i look at a recipe from a commercial brewery that is 90% base and 10% caramel and mashes at 158f, with cal ale yeast and getting to 1.016 fg. which i can't get to. Any thoughts?

First, forget what any calculators say.  They're only guessing and they my be right and they may not.  They're pretty much just looking at yeast attenuation ratings, which are not necessarily a good way to predict attenuation.   

Have you calibrated your thermometers?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 11:57:19 AM »
I was looking for some feedback on using a base malt only and mashing at say 158f while using cal ale yeast. All the calculators say it should finish at 1.020-22. In my experience mashing at 156f, the lowest i can get the fg is 1.018. All of this is because i look at a recipe from a commercial brewery that is 90% base and 10% caramel and mashes at 158f, with cal ale yeast and getting to 1.016 fg. which i can't get to. Any thoughts?

First, forget what any calculators say.  They're only guessing and they my be right and they may not.  They're pretty much just looking at yeast attenuation ratings, which are not necessarily a good way to predict attenuation.   

Have you calibrated your thermometers?

+1 to calibrating your instruments. I can often get a 1.060ish beer mashed at 155-158 to finish in the 1.012ish range.

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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 11:58:35 AM »
I was looking for some feedback on using a base malt only and mashing at say 158f while using cal ale yeast. All the calculators say it should finish at 1.020-22. In my experience mashing at 156f, the lowest i can get the fg is 1.018. All of this is because i look at a recipe from a commercial brewery that is 90% base and 10% caramel and mashes at 158f, with cal ale yeast and getting to 1.016 fg. which i can't get to. Any thoughts?

First, forget what any calculators say.  They're only guessing and they my be right and they may not.  They're pretty much just looking at yeast attenuation ratings, which are not necessarily a good way to predict attenuation.   

Have you calibrated your thermometers?
well i'm not going on the calculators only, from experience 156 puts me at 1.018. The calculators are almost always dead on for me and I am using several very accurate thermometers.

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 11:59:26 AM »
I was looking for some feedback on using a base malt only and mashing at say 158f while using cal ale yeast. All the calculators say it should finish at 1.020-22. In my experience mashing at 156f, the lowest i can get the fg is 1.018. All of this is because i look at a recipe from a commercial brewery that is 90% base and 10% caramel and mashes at 158f, with cal ale yeast and getting to 1.016 fg. which i can't get to. Any thoughts?

First, forget what any calculators say.  They're only guessing and they my be right and they may not.  They're pretty much just looking at yeast attenuation ratings, which are not necessarily a good way to predict attenuation.   

Have you calibrated your thermometers?

+1 to calibrating your instruments. I can often get a 1.060ish beer mashed at 155-158 to finish in the 1.012ish range.
what's your procedure? Mash out?

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 12:05:06 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

Offline denny

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 12:13:44 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

ETA:  OK, went back and checked info and there is nothing to indicate they do anything other than a single infusion for this beer.  We I was there brewing an alt for Beer Camp, we did a step mash (at their brewer's insistence) but I don't recall if there was a mashout.  Maybe Jeff will have some info from when he was there.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 12:23:05 PM by denny »
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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 12:21:37 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?
I have checked them all to 2 lab thermometers. Matching up with beersmith also makes me feel that thier pretty close. Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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Offline denny

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 12:23:51 PM »
Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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Are you fly sparging?
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »
Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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Are you fly sparging?
yes, with a mashout prior to.

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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 02:48:12 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
that's correct, which is why I had to go to a mashout.

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 02:51:59 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
that's correct, which is why I had to go to a mashout.

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I'm confused, if you want greater attenuation and you have noticed greater attenuation when you skip the mashout step then try skipping the mashout step. Perhaps you are not getting full beta conversion and denaturing the beta amylase with your mashout step before it has done all it can do with that mash.
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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2013, 02:52:30 PM »
Ok, so, what would be the major difference between using a lower mash temp vs not mashing out and getting a more fermentable wort?

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Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 02:59:24 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
that's correct, which is why I had to go to a mashout.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I'm confused, if you want greater attenuation and you have noticed greater attenuation when you skip the mashout step then try skipping the mashout step. Perhaps you are not getting full beta conversion and denaturing the beta amylase with your mashout step before it has done all it can do with that mash.
because I'm trying to follow a commercial recipe, which has a mash temp of 158f (less beta more alpa). But I can't seem to make those numbers work. Would I be missing something in the body/mouthfeel by just using a lower mash temp or mashing high with no mashout.

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