Author Topic: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)  (Read 1441 times)

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 07:37:46 PM »
Since Kickstarter's been mentioned. I'll mention my friends at the new Mispillion River Brewing company in Delaware. They have an indiegogo campaign and one of their options is your name engraved on a barstool at the bar for $500. They've sold five so far - not bad.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mispillion-river-brewing
Also mort, in case you didn't know. Joe (Burlington Beer) had a kickstarter that just closed and raised $25,000.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2013, 10:19:52 AM »
Since Kickstarter's been mentioned. I'll mention my friends at the new Mispillion River Brewing company in Delaware. They have an indiegogo campaign and one of their options is your name engraved on a barstool at the bar for $500. They've sold five so far - not bad.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mispillion-river-brewing
Also mort, in case you didn't know. Joe (Burlington Beer) had a kickstarter that just closed and raised $25,000.

I'd be curious to see how long that lasts because as far as I know each state regulates the sale of alcohol and it's doubtful this site has licensing to sell beer through each state.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2013, 10:46:26 AM »
7 Devils Brewery in Coos Bay sold investor pints at $100 ea. They limited to 300. All proceeds went to employ/ hire local artisans to supply items to the pub. Local muralist did a wonderful antique type mariners map painting on the outside of the building. Woodworkers crafted the interior tables and bar. Glass blower crafted a custom chandelier for the taproom. The place is just lovely.

All holders of an investor pint are entitled to one free pint any Weds. or Sun. for a year. They limited it to 300 as they were concerned about being too crowded. They are slammed busy on Weds and Sundays. Most people come in with friends and relatives in tow. It has worked very well for them. All pints sold out prior to the official opening.

I think this is a good way to rase money.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2013, 11:32:12 AM »
Since Kickstarter's been mentioned. I'll mention my friends at the new Mispillion River Brewing company in Delaware. They have an indiegogo campaign and one of their options is your name engraved on a barstool at the bar for $500. They've sold five so far - not bad.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mispillion-river-brewing
Also mort, in case you didn't know. Joe (Burlington Beer) had a kickstarter that just closed and raised $25,000.

I'd be curious to see how long that lasts because as far as I know each state regulates the sale of alcohol and it's doubtful this site has licensing to sell beer through each state.
Neither of them sold beer

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Online morticaixavier

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2013, 11:40:20 AM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.

Check out crowdbrewed.com. Particularly J Wakefield Brewing who raise over 100k (more than 200% of the original campaign goal). They are providing beer in one form or another at many of the pledge levels but they are all in the form of a membership.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.
Probably not, I'm guessing. If money and beer change hands, any well written law would consider it a sale regardless of time lapse. Whether it's legal to sell a beer membership probably depends mostly on state law.

I'm not sure if your comment was triggered by mine that they didn't sell beer. But Burlington's kickstarter sold swag only. The CSB is sold directly through the brewery.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:25:52 AM by mtnrockhopper »
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Offline anthony

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2013, 09:02:01 PM »
There's a place in Chicago that was initially going to go full-on CSB but realized they kind of needed some infrastructure first. Now that they (almost) have that all in place, they are reintroducing their CSB plans. Here is a recent article about it:

http://www.chicagogrid.com/enterprise/begyle-brewing-updates-csa-swapping-kale-beer/


Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 07:35:56 AM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.

Check out crowdbrewed.com. Particularly J Wakefield Brewing who raise over 100k (more than 200% of the original campaign goal). They are providing beer in one form or another at many of the pledge levels but they are all in the form of a membership.

If joining the membership includes a portion of free beer then no, there is no legal distinction.

I took a look at what info was available on that website. It's highly suspect but at least taking the website at face value they aren't really crowdsourcing. They are selling private placements to accredited investors in which investors are taking on equity in the company, at least as far the offer I found on the website. We'll see how long the SEC lets that stick around.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 07:52:44 AM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.

Check out crowdbrewed.com. Particularly J Wakefield Brewing who raise over 100k (more than 200% of the original campaign goal). They are providing beer in one form or another at many of the pledge levels but they are all in the form of a membership.

If joining the membership includes a portion of free beer then no, there is no legal distinction.

I took a look at what info was available on that website. It's highly suspect but at least taking the website at face value they aren't really crowdsourcing. They are selling private placements to accredited investors in which investors are taking on equity in the company, at least as far the offer I found on the website. We'll see how long the SEC lets that stick around.
At least for the J Wakefield Brewer, no contribution level, even for $5000, mentions equity.
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BJCP: B0958

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 08:19:52 AM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.

Check out crowdbrewed.com. Particularly J Wakefield Brewing who raise over 100k (more than 200% of the original campaign goal). They are providing beer in one form or another at many of the pledge levels but they are all in the form of a membership.

If joining the membership includes a portion of free beer then no, there is no legal distinction.

I took a look at what info was available on that website. It's highly suspect but at least taking the website at face value they aren't really crowdsourcing. They are selling private placements to accredited investors in which investors are taking on equity in the company, at least as far the offer I found on the website. We'll see how long the SEC lets that stick around.
At least for the J Wakefield Brewer, no contribution level, even for $5000, mentions equity.
A place not too far from here had various start up investment levels. I think an equity share was $25k, and that was 8 or 10 years ago.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 08:28:55 AM »
I wonder if there is a legal distinction being made between selling 'beer' and selling a 'membership'.

Check out crowdbrewed.com. Particularly J Wakefield Brewing who raise over 100k (more than 200% of the original campaign goal). They are providing beer in one form or another at many of the pledge levels but they are all in the form of a membership.

If joining the membership includes a portion of free beer then no, there is no legal distinction.

I took a look at what info was available on that website. It's highly suspect but at least taking the website at face value they aren't really crowdsourcing. They are selling private placements to accredited investors in which investors are taking on equity in the company, at least as far the offer I found on the website. We'll see how long the SEC lets that stick around.

There are two sides to that site, separated by very different sign up processes. The one you were looking at is only for accredited investors. The other side, labeled I think 'Rewards Campaigns' is the non-equity side.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 09:23:26 PM »
I see what you're saying. Yeah, those breweries are definitely offering beer in exchange for money, which is a beer sale. The FAQ on that side of the website says no beer sales without proper distribution channels in place but obviously they aren't doing much in the way of regulating their own website. I'm sure the TTB and/or the IRS will come knocking soon enough.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 08:35:15 AM »
I absolutely intend on having a presale model ala The Bruery or The Rare Barrel for barrel-aged releases.

However, I think brand identity (and demand) needs to be established beforehand. Not supplying demand after you're already in the market is bad enough. I would imagine if you didn't supply a pre-paid demand, your brand would go to the 7th circle of Beer Blogger hell. Big risk. Once you know what you can produce, and your customers know the quality is worth buying in, pre-sale allows you to keep the wheels turning while sitting on beer. I also think its a unique interaction with customers that generates buzz and excitement.

The Rare Barrel sold pre-sale, reserve memberships before they had product in the market and did quite well. I don't see how I could ask my customers to buy $300 in beer before they've tried any of it.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 08:54:14 AM »
I see what you're saying. Yeah, those breweries are definitely offering beer in exchange for money, which is a beer sale. The FAQ on that side of the website says no beer sales without proper distribution channels in place but obviously they aren't doing much in the way of regulating their own website. I'm sure the TTB and/or the IRS will come knocking soon enough.
As long as self distribution is legal in their state, everything should be fine as long as the customer picks up the beer at the brewery. If beer is being shipped to customers, they have to deal with receiving state laws as well. But shipping could be done following the procedures of a beer of the month club. And if they're not paying TTB/IRS taxes, then that's really a separate issue.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: CSB (Community Supported Breweries)
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 09:09:35 AM »
I see what you're saying. Yeah, those breweries are definitely offering beer in exchange for money, which is a beer sale. The FAQ on that side of the website says no beer sales without proper distribution channels in place but obviously they aren't doing much in the way of regulating their own website. I'm sure the TTB and/or the IRS will come knocking soon enough.
As long as self distribution is legal in their state, everything should be fine as long as the customer picks up the beer at the brewery. If beer is being shipped to customers, they have to deal with receiving state laws as well. But shipping could be done following the procedures of a beer of the month club. And if they're not paying TTB/IRS taxes, then that's really a separate issue.

The issue is that the website is facilitating beer sales to the final customer and taking a cut of what is received, which sounds like retailing. The website is doing business across state lines which makes it subject to federal jurisdiction, hence the TTB involvement.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm