Author Topic: A minor conundrum  (Read 3207 times)

Offline morticaixavier

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A minor conundrum
« on: December 09, 2013, 11:14:33 AM »
I have two 1 gallon jugs at home each with ~2 quarts of beer in them on the yeast cake. I think they are pretty much done as they have both dropped clear.

I would guess that each contains ~1.5 quarts of clear beer with .5 quarts of trub/yeast cake.

Normally I transfer from Primary to a keg (or bottling bucket, secondary, barrel, whatever) by filling my syphon hose with star san and draining that into a separate container to start the syphon. This time around I don't really want to deal with the losses inherent in filling the syphon, transferring to the bottling bucket and then into the bottles so I'm trying to work out the best way to get as much of the beer out of there as possible. If I can get two 22floz bottles out of each that would be great.

So far the best I've come up with is just to use a really short tube/racking cane combo (maybe cut the end of a plastic racking cane so it's only 12 inches long? and straight to the bottling want maybe?

Hmm, this might necessitate a trip to the LHBS.

Am I right in thinking that as long as the interior volume of tubeing/bottling want below the elbow of the racking cane is greater than the volume of the cane + a little I should still be able to start a syphon by filling that portion with star san right?

Am I way over thinking this?
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Offline kramerog

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 11:28:40 AM »
There isn't a need to shorten your syphon hose to minimize losses as far as I can see.  Yes as to the syphon starting question.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 01:22:12 PM »
What kind of caps fit on the jugs?  Can you get a stopper with two drilled holes, or drill the cap?

I'd transfer under minimal pressure and eliminate as much loss as possible.  I've used an aquarium pump for this and have also done it with CO2 at about 2 - 5lbs pressure.

I hate starting siphons.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 01:25:15 PM »
What kind of caps fit on the jugs?  Can you get a stopper with two drilled holes, or drill the cap?

I'd transfer under minimal pressure and eliminate as much loss as possible.  I've used an aquarium pump for this and have also done it with CO2 at about 2 - 5lbs pressure.

I hate starting siphons.

good idea. I think I could make that work. They are in glass 1 gallon apple juice jugs, should not be too hard to find the right stopper. I think the LBHS would even drill if for me if need be.

I imagine I can start the syphon then just with good old lung power. It's not like they are going to show any infections before they get consumed at this volume. Any body know if a coffee filter is fine enough for steril filtration  :o
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 01:30:59 PM »
I know a guy who would do that with an in-line micron filter stuck on a piece of tubing...

I recommend "rinsing" your mouth with vodka, or better yet bourbon to sterilize it.  At least once day regardless of whether or not you plan to siphon. 
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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 01:34:37 PM »
Am I right in thinking that as long as the interior volume of tubeing/bottling want below the elbow of the racking cane is greater than the volume of the cane + a little I should still be able to start a syphon by filling that portion with star san right?

Am I way over thinking this?
Yes to overthinking. As long as the syphon outlet is lower than the syphon inlet, it will work. It doesn't matter how high the bend is or what the inside volumes are.

I have a racking cane that I cut down for gallon jugs.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 02:09:46 PM »
Am I right in thinking that as long as the interior volume of tubeing/bottling want below the elbow of the racking cane is greater than the volume of the cane + a little I should still be able to start a syphon by filling that portion with star san right?

Am I way over thinking this?
Yes to overthinking. As long as the syphon outlet is lower than the syphon inlet, it will work. It doesn't matter how high the bend is or what the inside volumes are.

I have a racking cane that I cut down for gallon jugs.

Okay, I was going to argue about it not mattering but I realized you were right before typing it out. the only thing that matters is that the volume of star san is greater than the volume of AIR between the surface of the beer and the top of the bend. Otherwise the star san would exit before the beer made it over the hump and no syphon would form.
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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 02:14:38 PM »
Am I right in thinking that as long as the interior volume of tubeing/bottling want below the elbow of the racking cane is greater than the volume of the cane + a little I should still be able to start a syphon by filling that portion with star san right?

Am I way over thinking this?
Yes to overthinking. As long as the syphon outlet is lower than the syphon inlet, it will work. It doesn't matter how high the bend is or what the inside volumes are.

I have a racking cane that I cut down for gallon jugs.

Okay, I was going to argue about it not mattering but I realized you were right before typing it out. the only thing that matters is that the volume of star san is greater than the volume of AIR between the surface of the beer and the top of the bend. Otherwise the star san would exit before the beer made it over the hump and no syphon would form.
Actually, if it only makes it over the hump, it will flow back into the jug. The beer needs to make it over the bend and below the surface level of beer in the jug before the syphon starts.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 02:51:39 PM »
I hate starting siphons.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 03:01:17 PM »
I hate starting siphons.

So Joe, tell us how you feel about starting syphons?
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 03:42:12 PM »
I hate starting siphons.

So Joe, tell us how you feel about starting syphons?

I'd rather watch episodes of My Little Pony. 

BTW, what's the convention on spelling?  Siphon?  Syphon?  With a Y it seems so much more epic, like Scylla or Sisyphus.  But I don't think I ever noticed anyone spell it with a Y before this thread...
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 03:50:28 PM »
I hate starting siphons.

So Joe, tell us how you feel about starting syphons?

I'd rather watch episodes of My Little Pony. 

BTW, what's the convention on spelling?  Siphon?  Syphon?  With a Y it seems so much more epic, like Scylla or Sisyphus.  But I don't think I ever noticed anyone spell it with a Y before this thread...

personally, if I have the opportunity, real or perceived to use a (an?) Y instead of an I, I will. And it is only convention and a desire to be generally understood that stops me from saying Eye Wyll.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 03:55:45 PM »
I'd rather have a long conversation about spelling conventions and the etymological roots of words than deal with a siphon.  I was mightily pleased with myself when I figured out I could start them with pressure, rather than fill and drain into a glass.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 04:00:35 PM »
I'd rather have a long conversation about spelling conventions and the etymological roots of words than deal with a siphon. 

 Well sayd.     :D
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: A minor conundrum
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 04:54:11 PM »
I'd rather have a long conversation about spelling conventions and the etymological roots of words than deal with a siphon.  I was mightily pleased with myself when I figured out I could start them with pressure, rather than fill and drain into a glass.
It is much easier to simply suck start the siphon.  I can usually use pressure, but sometimes I need to start it manually.  I have a ~1 foot piece of tubing that fits snugly over the racking tubing - sanitize everything, suck on the end to start the siphon, pull off the extra bit of tubing, and rack away.
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