Author Topic: Gotta Vent about CaraPils  (Read 2248 times)

Offline davidgzach

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Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« on: December 13, 2013, 08:32:44 AM »
Sorry, but this has been building up...... :o

I've been seeing a lot of posts about using CaraPils in IPAs for head retention.  Almost every time there is at least 5% crystal and a ton of hops in the recipe.  So, not that I'm a brewmaster, but I need to set the record a little straighter on CaraPils.

CaraPils is a lightly kilned pilsner malt, meaning it is a crystal malt!  It is not some miracle grain that adds head retention to beer because it is used.  It's primary purpose is to add head retention to light lagers that are not highly hopped as it is so lightly kilned that it does not add any additional flavor.  That's about it!

If you are making an IPA, with crystal malt and a ton of hops, there is no reason to add CaraPils.  It is redundant and does nothing for the beer.  All crystal malts contain dextrins that are unfermentable and add body and head retention because of the kilning process.  If you already have hops and crystal malts in the recipe contributing to the head retention qualities, CaraPils is not needed.  It's a non-factor and contributes nothing......

OK, got that off my chest.  I feel better and hope I did not offend anyone.... 

Dave
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Offline slarkin712

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 08:44:50 AM »
I feel better too.  I see carapils in nearly every IPA recipe, so I second guess my self whether or not I should be using it in my recipes as well.  No more carapils in IPAs!  I even see it in IPA recipes from professional brewers.  They use carapils and sugar(dextrose) in the same recipe.  What is the point?  Actually, now I'm getting angry again and typing very hard on the keyboard.  If you want to use carapils to add body I can understand, but why not just mash at a higher temperature?  And then leave the sugar out.

Offline davidgzach

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 08:49:16 AM »
I feel better too.  I see carapils in nearly every IPA recipe, so I second guess my self whether or not I should be using it in my recipes as well.  No more carapils in IPAs!  I even see it in IPA recipes from professional brewers.  They use carapils and sugar(dextrose) in the same recipe.  What is the point?  Actually, now I'm getting angry again and typing very hard on the keyboard.  If you want to use carapils to add body I can understand, but why not just mash at a higher temperature?  And then leave the sugar out.

Maybe a pro has a different reason for adding CP to a recipe.  I don't know.  But I just couldn't see another recipe with it in there next to 10% crystal 40 and 6oz of hops for the specific reason of head retention......

I'm with you on the raising the mash temp comment.

Dave
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Offline singletrack brewer

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 08:58:56 AM »
Good timing on this topic as I am thinking about Carapils in an IPA but with no other crystal malts.  I'm thinking Crisp Pale 2 for the base and Goldpils Vienna for a color/flavor boost.  The idea was to use some Carapils for head retention here but now I'm thinking about skipping it. Anyway, good topic.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 09:14:46 AM »
Sorry, but this has been building up...... :o

I've been seeing a lot of posts about using CaraPils in IPAs for head retention.  Almost every time there is at least 5% crystal and a ton of hops in the recipe.  So, not that I'm a brewmaster, but I need to set the record a little straighter on CaraPils.

CaraPils is a lightly kilned pilsner malt, meaning it is a crystal malt!  It is not some miracle grain that adds head retention to beer because it is used.  It's primary purpose is to add head retention to light lagers that are not highly hopped as it is so lightly kilned that it does not add any additional flavor.  That's about it!

If you are making an IPA, with crystal malt and a ton of hops, there is no reason to add CaraPils.  It is redundant and does nothing for the beer.  All crystal malts contain dextrins that are unfermentable and add body and head retention because of the kilning process.  If you already have hops and crystal malts in the recipe contributing to the head retention qualities, CaraPils is not needed.  It's a non-factor and contributes nothing......

OK, got that off my chest.  I feel better and hope I did not offend anyone.... 

Dave

I totally agree, it is redundant. I've been brewing for a long time - long enough to remember when every recipe had carapils, every Scottish recipe had peated malt, and every beer got a secondary no matter what.  Things have come a long way.
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Offline tcanova

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 09:25:45 AM »


I totally agree, it is redundant. I've been brewing for a long time - long enough to remember when every recipe had carapils, every Scottish recipe had peated malt, and every beer got a secondary no matter what.  Things have come a long way.
[/quote]

And we only had dry yeast and Coopers in a can... ;)

Thad being said, how do you feel about adding wheat malt for head retention?  Probably not necessary but I've been doing it for years...
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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 09:26:56 AM »
We need a homebrewing achievement badge for writing a rant about an ingredient.
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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 09:32:09 AM »
Good timing on this topic as I am thinking about Carapils in an IPA but with no other crystal malts.  I'm thinking Crisp Pale 2 for the base and Goldpils Vienna for a color/flavor boost.  The idea was to use some Carapils for head retention here but now I'm thinking about skipping it. Anyway, good topic.
I love gildpils vienna for color and flavor.

Offline fmader

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 09:43:15 AM »
I'm thinking that the craze for carapils in IPA's stemmed from the Pliny recipe. Anyways, I used it for a minute based upon that recipe.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 09:44:14 AM »
We need a homebrewing achievement badge for writing a rant about an ingredient.

:D     That's funny !   Look out <random ingredient> you're next !
Jon H.

Offline davidgzach

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 09:47:29 AM »
We need a homebrewing achievement badge for writing a rant about an ingredient.

LOL!  Thanks Jimmy!
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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 09:53:47 AM »
I'm thinking that the craze for carapils in IPA's stemmed from the Pliny recipe. Anyways, I used it for a minute based upon that recipe.

It was around LONG before that.

Look, people, it's just a tool in the toolbox.  I definitely don't believe that carapils is the only answer for foam creation and retention.  Good recipe design, mashing and fermenting techniques can take care of that.  But that's not to say that carapils doesn't also have it's place.  Just like tools, if you need a hammer, use a hammer.  Don't try to do a hammer's job with a screwdriver.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 09:57:50 AM »
Thad being said, how do you feel about adding wheat malt for head retention?  Probably not necessary but I've been doing it for years...
[/quote]

Now wheat adds proteins not dextrins which aid in head retention so that is different.  How much of an effect, I have no idea, but it is a different contributing factor.  Wheat will also add flavor while CP does not.....

Dave
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 10:03:12 AM by davidgzach »
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Offline denny

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2013, 10:03:10 AM »

Thad being said, how do you feel about adding wheat malt for head retention?  Probably not necessary but I've been doing it for years...

Now wheat adds proteins not dextrins which aid in head retention so that is a different.  How much of an effect, I have no idea, but it is a different contributing factor.  Wheat will also add flavor while CP does not.....

Dave
[/quote]

ANY malt will add proteins, carapils included.  And it does have a flavor to it.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Gotta Vent about CaraPils
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2013, 10:05:03 AM »

Thad being said, how do you feel about adding wheat malt for head retention?  Probably not necessary but I've been doing it for years...

Now wheat adds proteins not dextrins which aid in head retention so that is a different.  How much of an effect, I have no idea, but it is a different contributing factor.  Wheat will also add flavor while CP does not.....



Dave

ANY malt will add proteins, carapils included.  And it does have a flavor to it.
[/quote]

Denny, wheat adds more proteins including gluten while barley does not.  That is the contributing factor....

And everything has a flavor but CaraPils is designed specifically not to add flavor to a beer.

Dave
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