Author Topic: This is what happens with you mess with PH  (Read 554 times)

Offline quattlebaum

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This is what happens with you mess with PH
« on: December 24, 2013, 07:47:56 AM »
I am only assuming this is because my finial beer PH dropped to 3.9 at room temp. Using wlp004 irish Ale.

My yeast is Dead? PH is to low?

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Jamils Ruabeoir (Irish Red)
Brewer: Quattlebaum
Asst Brewer:
Style: Irish Red Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 4.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.90 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 3.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 17.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
5 lbs 7.9 oz          Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         1        87.8 %       
4.1 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         2        4.1 %         
4.1 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)   Grain         3        4.1 %         
4.0 oz                Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM)      Grain         4        4.0 %         
0.80 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop           5        25.0 IBUs     
2.0 pkg               Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)     Yeast         6        -             


Mash Schedule: My Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 4.1 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 2.74 gal of water at 166.9 F        152.0 F       60 min       

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 2.91gal) of 175.0 F water
Notes:
Salts:  Alkalinity 105, RA 11, Ca97, mg14, na9, cl 99, so479

mash PH was 5.22 at room temp
sparge PH was 5.33 at room temp
Strangely my post boil PH did not go down it actually went up a bit?  5.45PH at room temp


After 2 days the krausen dropped and OG has stopped at 1.020FG.
I did not think this was out of reason for PH but this yeast really dropped the finial beer PH a lot ! 1.55 points i have never seen it drop that much normally it drops .8 to 1 point. All in the name of science i suppose:)  Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 07:50:31 AM by quattlebaum »

Offline mabrungard

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 10:33:14 AM »
A pH drop from mashing to beer is common. Some yeasts are especially acidic. Ale yeasts always produce a lower pH than lager yeasts and some of those ale yeasts produce lower pH than others. I'm not sure about the Irish Ale yeast. 

The mashing and sparging pHs are a little bit lower than most beers need, but they aren't way out of line. I don't expect that they are responsible for the beer pH.

The ion levels in that water are fairly high. Why such a high calcium level? Although calcium is generally beneficial to the yeast, it does increase the yeast flocculation. It is possible that this helped drop the yeast a little prematurely. Warming the beer and resuspending the yeast may assist in helping the fermentation finish. Don't be afraid of heating the fermenter now since most of the fermentation and fermentation by-products have been formed (or avoided).
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Offline duboman

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2013, 11:15:40 AM »
I too would suggest raising the temperature and rousing the yeast to try and get it to finish. You can also add some yeast nutrient at the same time to give it a boost and it should finish.

BTW, This is a hydrometer reading right? If refractometer be sure you are converting properly to ensure proper reading. Also be sure your measuring device is properly calibrated.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2013, 11:36:37 AM »
How does it taste?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2013, 12:29:35 PM »
I too would suggest raising the temperature and rousing the yeast to try and get it to finish. You can also add some yeast nutrient at the same time to give it a boost and it should finish.

BTW, This is a hydrometer reading right? If refractometer be sure you are converting properly to ensure proper reading. Also be sure your measuring device is properly calibrated.
Good advice. Using a hydrometer vs refractometer for FG occurred to me too.
Jon H.

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2013, 02:20:39 PM »
I basically have been reading the new water book and attempting to apply what i am learning. I have been using the suggested "ranges"
      Medium Ale            Amber                        moderate, assertive                        Ca=50-150            Alkalinity=40-120            Sulfate=100-300            Chloride=50-100            RA=0-60  Styles Altbier, ESB, irish red, American amber, English ipa, roggenbier, Belgian pale, saison

i have also been wanting to see what a lower boil PH will do for Hop or malt expressions.  I do use a Hydrometer and everything is calibrated. Obviously i have much to wrap my head around. So will a low PH such as 3.9 cause this yeast to not function well. I believe this is in the lambic range for final PH. It taste a little bland and sweet of course.

This is my local water profile. Idaho Falls.  Alkalinity 262, Ca 66, mg 20, Na 27, Cl 18, So4 36.  PH 8.3 at room temp
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 02:22:53 PM by quattlebaum »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: This is what happens with you mess with PH
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 02:28:41 PM »
Somewhere I read that many British ales can be in the 3.9 to 4 range.

Lambics are more in the 3.1 3.4 range IIRC.
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