Author Topic: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!  (Read 3855 times)

Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2014, 10:13:12 AM »
I think the changes are for sure in the right direction.  I still would have liked to see maybe another 'round' added on in the way of qualifier competitions around the country.  Try and get the '1st' and '2nd' round o the NHC to be of higher quality beers and thus reduce the number of entries that way.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2014, 04:32:50 PM »
I think the changes are for sure in the right direction.  I still would have liked to see maybe another 'round' added on in the way of qualifier competitions around the country.  Try and get the '1st' and '2nd' round o the NHC to be of higher quality beers and thus reduce the number of entries that way.

but how big would the new 1st round have to be? it's a challenge getting 10 or 11 clubs to volunteer organize and judges to judge 750 entries each. Either the first round would have to have a lot more sites so more clubs/judges or a lot more entries so just more judges.
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Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2014, 04:34:43 PM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2014, 05:52:54 PM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.

There was a lot of talk about that concept as well and just in trying to plan the logistics of it - oh boy. Not fun.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 07:09:48 PM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.
Dan, if you compete for a long time, you will have a certain bias against this. A 40+ beer in one competition will be a 32 in another. Then well respected folks give you great feedback the next time you put it out there. You can't say that judging is an exact science.

My experience.
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Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2014, 07:41:25 PM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.
Dan, if you compete for a long time, you will have a certain bias against this. A 40+ beer in one competition will be a 32 in another. Then well respected folks give you great feedback the next time you put it out there. You can't say that judging is an exact science.

My experience.
I agree that's just how judging goes. The same thing will happen to you in the 1st and 2nd round of the NHC. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not sure I see how that would be a negative against having qualifier competitions for the 1st round throughout the year. I can definitely see how logistically it would be a bit of work... But it seems to me it would be worth it.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2014, 07:14:20 AM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.
Dan, if you compete for a long time, you will have a certain bias against this. A 40+ beer in one competition will be a 32 in another. Then well respected folks give you great feedback the next time you put it out there. You can't say that judging is an exact science.

My experience.
I agree that's just how judging goes. The same thing will happen to you in the 1st and 2nd round of the NHC. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not sure I see how that would be a negative against having qualifier competitions for the 1st round throughout the year. I can definitely see how logistically it would be a bit of work... But it seems to me it would be worth it.

Why not just seed the brewer, not the beers? Someone who competes a lot will have enough ribbons/medals to qualify. That would be a lot of record keeping for someone, though.
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Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2014, 07:30:42 AM »
Sorry. Yes that's what I meant. Of you medal you get an entry.  That would account for up to the total number of medals times the total number of participating competitions. Any remaining slots could go into a raffle.  I'm sure some of the won entries would go unclaimed.

I do see that someone would have to enter the data etc... I'm thinking an application would need to be written so you can have this take place at the competition level. The competitions request your AHA number upon registration if you wish to participate.  I'm sure we could work with the major competition software folks and have an export created. I could easily help with writing an import tool for the AHA. I mean most of it would be automated at that point.... I think most non-Michigan competitions I've entered use the open source BCOE&M software.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2014, 08:39:30 AM »
In talking about using existing competitions. You medal at one of them you're allowed to enter the 1st round of the nhc.
Dan, if you compete for a long time, you will have a certain bias against this. A 40+ beer in one competition will be a 32 in another. Then well respected folks give you great feedback the next time you put it out there. You can't say that judging is an exact science.

My experience.
I agree that's just how judging goes. The same thing will happen to you in the 1st and 2nd round of the NHC. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not sure I see how that would be a negative against having qualifier competitions for the 1st round throughout the year. I can definitely see how logistically it would be a bit of work... But it seems to me it would be worth it.

Why not just seed the brewer, not the beers? Someone who competes a lot will have enough ribbons/medals to qualify. That would be a lot of record keeping for someone, though.

In my mind you are still essentially raising the cost of entering the NHC to lower demand. I don't enter a lot of competitions partially because it's an expense that I don't need most of the time. But the NHC is an exception. As it is a highly respected contest I'm sure there are a lot of folks you aim for it as their one, or one of a very few, contests each year. If you are trying to gain entry to NHC by winning a separate qualifying event with it's own entry fee you have again made it so someone who can afford to enter ten or hundreds of beers in contests all year long has a much greater chance of getting an entry than someone who has to refine and collect their very best efforts and enter only in 1 or 2 contests in the hope of winning on the merits of their entry rather than on surviving attrition.
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Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2014, 09:09:05 AM »
there would only be 84 medals per competition.  There will still be slots available for a lottery afterwards.  Medaling in one of the competitions would only guarantee you a slot. I'm sure at least a portion of those slots will go unused in the NHC... so they would be slots (in addition to the un-claimed slots) that would go to the lottery.  So in theory you could go on like you have been and still take you chances on a lottery or you could take steps to secure a position by helping out with the NHC the previous year or medaling in one of the selected comps.  I think it would increase the quality of entries in the NHC.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2014, 09:17:45 AM »
I think it would increase the quality of entries in the NHC.

This goes back to the debate - what is the purpose of the NHC - quality or a chance for any member to win. In the survey's done by the AHA it's pretty clear that the membership favors the open chance for any member to win.
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Offline james

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2014, 09:26:57 AM »
there would only be 84 medals per competition.  There will still be slots available for a lottery afterwards.  Medaling in one of the competitions would only guarantee you a slot. I'm sure at least a portion of those slots will go unused in the NHC... so they would be slots (in addition to the un-claimed slots) that would go to the lottery.  So in theory you could go on like you have been and still take you chances on a lottery or you could take steps to secure a position by helping out with the NHC the previous year or medaling in one of the selected comps.  I think it would increase the quality of entries in the NHC.

I slowed down entering competitions last year (only entered 4 or 5 including NHC), this year I am planning on entering NHC and probably 1 other.

In your situation someone who wanted to enter could just pay the $30 to register a competition and register themselves and their friends as the winners.  It'd be cheaper than entering a bunch of other competitions.

Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2014, 09:27:36 AM »
I think it would increase the quality of entries in the NHC.

This goes back to the debate - what is the purpose of the NHC - quality or a chance for any member to win. In the survey's done by the AHA it's pretty clear that the membership favors the open chance for any member to win.
I agree it depends on that.  I wasn't aware of those survey results.  To me there are 100's of competitions 'anyone' can win and the NHC should be 'special' so that's where I was coming from.
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Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2014, 09:29:48 AM »
there would only be 84 medals per competition.  There will still be slots available for a lottery afterwards.  Medaling in one of the competitions would only guarantee you a slot. I'm sure at least a portion of those slots will go unused in the NHC... so they would be slots (in addition to the un-claimed slots) that would go to the lottery.  So in theory you could go on like you have been and still take you chances on a lottery or you could take steps to secure a position by helping out with the NHC the previous year or medaling in one of the selected comps.  I think it would increase the quality of entries in the NHC.

I slowed down entering competitions last year (only entered 4 or 5 including NHC), this year I am planning on entering NHC and probably 1 other.

In your situation someone who wanted to enter could just pay the $30 to register a competition and register themselves and their friends as the winners.  It'd be cheaper than entering a bunch of other competitions.
It wouldn't be anyone who wanted to do a competition.  It would have to be specific competitions the AHA would pick out ahead of time so people could see which competitions they would want to enter etc... They would also have to be decent sized competitions say 300-400+...
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: NHC entry problems : SOLUTIONS!
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2014, 09:54:03 AM »
It wouldn't be anyone who wanted to do a competition.  It would have to be specific competitions the AHA would pick out ahead of time so people could see which competitions they would want to enter etc... They would also have to be decent sized competitions say 300-400+...
I wonder how many competitions the AHA would need do this with.  If the only way to get entry into NHC was one of these competitions, I bet those would fill up very fast, especially if there weren't that many qualifying comps.  As it stands right now, the local comps that I usually submit to (some well over 500 entries ) are filling up in a couple days to a week.
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