Author Topic: Hibiscus - ginger saison  (Read 270 times)

Offline unclebrazzie

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Hibiscus - ginger saison
« on: March 06, 2015, 07:44:58 AM »
Got a bottle of re-used Wyeast 3711 French Saison in the fridge since laste January which I'd like to stretch its legs for a while before it grows old and grumpy.

SG 1.050
20 liters, est. 5.3% ABV
25 IBU calc.
13EBC exp.

4.1 kg Pale (90%)
  .5 kg flaked wheat (10%)

Single step infusion mash @ 65°C (149F) for 60' or until converted.

70' boil.

40g Centennial @ t-10' (20IBU)
40g Centennial @ t-5'  (  5IBU)
40g Centennial @ t      (whirlpool)

50g dried hibiscus flowers @ t-10'
20g home made candied ginger in secondary: chopped ginger, boiled and coated in sugar.
possibly add more hibiscus in the form of tea when bottling

Cool to 20°C, pitch starter made with reused yeast cake of Wyeast 3711.
Ferment warm (28°C-82F or higher) for 2-3 weeks or until done.
Rack to secondary onto the ginger. Leave for at least a week or until ginger is just slightly too much.
Rack off and bottle with sugar; aim for 2.5 volumes. If necessary, add hibiscus tea or macerate to bottling bucket to amp the flavour/colour.

Whatchafank?


Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 09:45:02 AM »
I'm not a particular fan of too much floral character in beer, too much ginger, or too much centennial, so this would not be a beer I would find myself brewing. I've had some beers with hibiscus and it works well in a saison but it is easily overdone for my preferences.

I've only seen people add candied ginger at the end of the boil. I'm not sure if it needs heat to dissolve some of the sugar to release more of the flavor but that is something I would look at.
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 09:47:55 AM »
Yeah, I've used hibiscus in a saison, too, and while a small amount for color and extra tartness was good (to me), it can get overdone.  Never used ginger in a beer.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 09:57:24 AM »
I say go for it. if it's over the top next time dial it down. the ginger if fine. candied is much milder than fresh. I dont know that I would boil the hibiscus though. I'd add it at flameout.

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 10:02:20 AM »
FWIW, I did with the hibiscus more or less what I do with cider -  backflavoring.  I dosed a pint of saison with a homemade steeped 'hibiscus tea' until I liked the amount and then scaled up in the keg with the tea. No guesswork.

EDIT -  I bought a bag of dried hibiscus ( jamaica) flowers online and steeped them in hot water, making a pretty strong tea, to keep the water addition to a minimum. I think they were these :

http://www.amazon.com/Hibiscus-De-El-Sol-Mexico/dp/B0000GKV6C
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 10:05:26 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline troybinso

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 10:32:34 AM »
I did something similar with the hibiscus. I made a very strong tea with the dried flowers and I put some sugar in as well. Racked the saison on top of the tea in the secondary. I was really pleased with it.

Offline duboman

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 10:54:45 AM »
Never used ginger but I use Hibiscus in a Saison and a Gose, the flowers go in at flame out and steep like a hop stand. The results are great, nice floral notes and color contribution. The floral aroma will fade a bit. I used the bag from Jamaica as well, about 2/3rds IIRC.
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Online erockrph

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 10:57:31 AM »
I use hibiscus in the secondary (without making a tea) and I get plenty of character and color out of it there. I think there is a lot of variability between different brands, but I find that 2/3 ounce per gallon (which would be about 100g in a 20L batch) gives me a nice pink color and enough hibiscus character without being overwhelming.
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 10:58:26 AM »
Never used ginger but I use Hibiscus in a Saison and a Gose, the flowers go in at flame out and steep like a hop stand. The results are great, nice floral notes and color contribution. The floral aroma will fade a bit. I used the bag from Jamaica as well, about 2/3rds IIRC.

Did you use the whole bag, Gary? I'd thought of doing that, too, but wasn't sure how much flavor it would bring.
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Offline duboman

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 11:45:21 AM »
Never used ginger but I use Hibiscus in a Saison and a Gose, the flowers go in at flame out and steep like a hop stand. The results are great, nice floral notes and color contribution. The floral aroma will fade a bit. I used the bag from Jamaica as well, about 2/3rds IIRC.

Did you use the whole bag, Gary? I'd thought of doing that, too, but wasn't sure how much flavor it would bring.

Hey Jon,
No, I used 45 grams which if I remember was a bit less than the entire bag. They steeped for about 30 minutes before I began chilling. This is reminding me to order some more so I can get my Gose on for the warmer weather which I hope is coming soon!
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2015, 03:46:40 AM »
Yeah, I hear tea would work better than boiling or even "hopstand" timing.
I think I'll decide when I get to brewing, which is scheduled for next Sunday.

Candied ginger will likely become fresh ginger seeing as how I probably won't have time to candy some.

Any thoughts on the "only late" hopping schedule? While I want the beer to be hoppy to a certain extent, I don't want it to become a farmhouse IPA either.
My Citra saison seems to be about hoppy enough and was hopped thusly (comparable stats otherwise):
70' boil.
0.5 ounces of Citra @70' (26 IBU)
1.0 ounces of Citra @ 10' (6 IBU)
1.5 ounces of Citra @ flameout (0 IBU)

The main difference being the omission of early hops, in favour of late. Which was just an idea, really.

Offline duboman

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 05:01:16 AM »
IMO, if you plan on using the Hibiscus, dry hopping would offer competition to the floral aroma and might not compliment. I'd opt for one or the other, not both
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2015, 01:42:58 PM »
It's done.
Swapped the flameout/hop stand addition for 30g during mash.
Boiled 30g of dried hibiscus flowers during the last 5', together with the peel of a lemon and the peel of an orange. Dirty pink color, which I'll prolly end up boosting with more hibiscus tea later.