Author Topic: Idea for siphoning to keg?  (Read 1309 times)

Offline dzlater

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Idea for siphoning to keg?
« on: January 09, 2014, 04:28:39 AM »
Any one think this is a bad idea?
Pressurize the keg.
Put a dissconnect on the end of the hose.
Place the other end of the hose in the fermenter.
Attach the dissconect to the out post of the keg, release the pressure release valve to draw a vacuum and start the siphon.
Dan S. from NJ

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 04:55:07 AM »
I don't understand how that will draw a vacuum.

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 05:12:30 AM »
I'm not sure you will get a vacuum, or enough to pull the liquid to start the siphon.

A couple of guys in the club will use a vacuum pump on the gas post to pull the liquid in through the liquid post. I have seen it done and it works great.

Try it, let us know what happens.
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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 05:59:44 AM »
That's not going to work. Pressure will push on both ends of the port. I've always has great luck with autosiphon. Just put a gear clamp on the racking port end. I even go so far as to put a straight racking cain on "out" end to prevent tube curling.
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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 06:42:19 AM »
Perhaps, theoretically, a thin tube from the pressure relief valve to near(or just inside) the end of dip tube might create enough of a venturi effect to get a siphon started?

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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 07:50:18 AM »
Once you hook up the disconnect to the keg, you're going to blow CO2 into your fermenter.  Like Major said, the pressure is going to blow out both ends of that set up.

You'd need to have your fermenter pressurized in order to push into the keg or at least to have a stable environment until you pull the pressure relief valve.
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Offline dzlater

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 08:18:13 AM »
That's not going to work. Pressure will push on both ends of the port. I've always has great luck with autosiphon. Just put a gear clamp on the racking port end. I even go so far as to put a straight racking cain on "out" end to prevent tube curling.

Yea, that makes sense.
Just to prove it to myself, I'm still going to give it shot with water when I rinse out the keg before filling.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline dkfick

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 09:47:55 AM »
I keg using a vacuum pump (allinonewinepump)... You're unlikely to be able to get the liquid flowing to start a siphon in this manor...
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 11:31:48 AM »
That's not going to work. Pressure will push on both ends of the port. I've always has great luck with autosiphon. Just put a gear clamp on the racking port end. I even go so far as to put a straight racking cain on "out" end to prevent tube curling.

Yea, that makes sense.
Just to prove it to myself, I'm still going to give it shot with water when I rinse out the keg before filling.

I predict that when you hook up the QD with the hose on it to the keg all the pressure is just going to bubble out through the water. And if it doesn't you won't get a vacuum inside the keg, the keg will return to ambient pressure is all, same as in the fermenter.
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Offline alestateyall

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Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 11:52:57 AM »
When you open your fermenter to put the hose in it the pressure in the fermenter will equalize to the pressure in the room.

When you pressurize your keg the pressure inside the keg will be higher than the pressure in the room.

When you connect the QD and/or pull the relief valve on the keg air will escape until the pressure in the keg drops to match the pressure in the room.  Once the pressure in the room and the keg match air will stop flowing and the pressure in the room and keg will stay the same.

To push beer from the fermenter to the keg you need more pressure in the fermenter than in the keg. This will never happen with your proposed setup. 

As Mort suggested as soon as you connect the QD pressure will release out of the keg into the liquid in the fermenter.

Some folks suggested using a vacuum. This will reduce the pressure in the keg below the pressure in the room. That will allow positive pressure from the fermenter to the keg. That will allow beer to flow (like sucking on a straw.)
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Offline svejk

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 12:08:15 PM »
I prefer the autosiphon myself, but one way you could create a vacuum in the keg would be to slosh around some boiling water in it to heat it up.  Dump out the water and seal the lid.  As it cools, a vacuum will develop as the air inside cools and contracts.  You'll want to have your racking cane already in the beer, and once you hook up the liquid out post to the keg, it should start a siphon.  You would need to vent the keg after the siphon slows down since it will eventually stop pulling, but I think this would work.

Offline dzlater

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 12:50:52 PM »
It seemed like such a good idea.
Apparently the laws of physics do not cease to exist in my kitchen.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline yso191

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 01:08:24 PM »
Are you going from a carboy to a keg?

If so, I have used the following system very successfully:

1. push a racking cane through one hole in one of those orange carboy caps with two nipples.
2. connect a hose to the output side of the racking cane.
3. connect a black keg connector (for beverage out) to the other end of the above hose.
4. connect that connector to the beverage out post on a purged and depressurized keg
5. connect your CO2 tank to the other carboy cap nipple and pressurize to 2-3 psi.

This will pressurize the whole carboy, forcing your beer out the racking cane and into the beverage out, filling your keg quiescently from the bottom, all under a blanket of CO2.
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Offline turkeygecko

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 01:28:09 PM »
Are you going from a carboy to a keg?

If so, I have used the following system very successfully:

1. push a racking cane through one hole in one of those orange carboy caps with two nipples.
2. connect a hose to the output side of the racking cane.
3. connect a black keg connector (for beverage out) to the other end of the above hose.
4. connect that connector to the beverage out post on a purged and depressurized keg
5. connect your CO2 tank to the other carboy cap nipple and pressurize to 2-3 psi.

This will pressurize the whole carboy, forcing your beer out the racking cane and into the beverage out, filling your keg quiescently from the bottom, all under a blanket of CO2.

+1

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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Idea for siphoning to keg?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 01:44:05 PM »
Are you going from a carboy to a keg?

If so, I have used the following system very successfully:

1. push a racking cane through one hole in one of those orange carboy caps with two nipples.
2. connect a hose to the output side of the racking cane.
3. connect a black keg connector (for beverage out) to the other end of the above hose.
4. connect that connector to the beverage out post on a purged and depressurized keg
5. connect your CO2 tank to the other carboy cap nipple and pressurize to 2-3 psi.

This will pressurize the whole carboy, forcing your beer out the racking cane and into the beverage out, filling your keg quiescently from the bottom, all under a blanket of CO2.

I was under the impression that glass carboys are rated for 0 PSI and this is a very bad idea.  is that incorrect?
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