Author Topic: Lager turbidity  (Read 797 times)

Offline euge

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Lager turbidity
« on: January 11, 2014, 08:17:15 PM »
It seems to me that lager yeast tends towards a higher turbidity and stays in suspension for quite some time if disturbed during racking.

Am I correct in my assumption based on my observations?
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 10:02:38 PM »
Not as flocculant as ale yeast for sure. To clear a lager beer get it as cold as you can, I used 32F last year, will use -1C this year. If all else fails use BioFine clear or gelatin.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline euge

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 07:00:56 AM »
Thanks. The last batch of ale I brewed with BRY-97 was bright at three weeks and even better after conditioning in the 30's for another!

I'm really making a push towards lagers this year. Eventually, my focus will be as a lager-brewery. The turbidity issue is not one that bothers me with ales but when it comes to my lagers I want bright beer. So perhaps resorting to gelatin etc, while as an extra step may save me some time instead of waiting for the beer to clear.

However this leads me to wonder if the yeast are still working away on extant sugar (raffinose?) albeit very slowly while in suspension even after six weeks? I don't want to prematurely remove them from their task.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline Jeff M

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 07:09:54 AM »
Id stay away from gelatin if you are going to start selling your beer.  Gelatin can make vegans and their ilk REALLY upset:)  Id look for a different option like isinglass or another commercial alternative.

Cheers,
Jeff
Granite Coast Brewing Company.
Building a clone of The Electric Brewery to use as a pilot system for new recipes!

Offline euge

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 07:14:02 AM »
Good to know! Damn vegans. Don't they know beer is an animal product?

I'm not going pro tho. ;D My house= my brewery/operation...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 07:14:59 AM »
I guess I just expect to wait out a lager.  The lager yeast isn't really more able to be disturbed by racking than ales, but rather I find that how well it sediments and compacts varies from yeast to yeast, regardless of lager or ale strain.  Some pack tight and hold once they have dropped out and others are more "dusty" and are easily disturbed.  But are you talking about something as a more permanent turbidity, like chill haze?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 07:19:30 AM »
Id stay away from gelatin if you are going to start selling your beer.  Gelatin can make vegans and their ilk REALLY upset:)  Id look for a different option like isinglass or another commercial alternative.

Cheers,
Jeff
Jeff, Isinglass is made from the swim bladder of certain fish, so it is not vegan friendly.

BioFine clear and PVPP would be a good solution. SiO2 and a polymer, no animal products.

Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline euge

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 07:25:32 AM »
I guess I just expect to wait out a lager.  The lager yeast isn't really more able to be disturbed by racking than ales, but rather I find that how well it sediments and compacts varies from yeast to yeast, regardless of lager or ale strain.  Some pack tight and hold once they have dropped out and others are more "dusty" and are easily disturbed.  But are you talking about something as a more permanent turbidity, like chill haze?

No it's not chill haze. I got some samples before yeast got roused by the racking and they looked and tasted really promising. The beer is excellent BTW.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 07:51:54 AM »
I didn't think so - glad to see your lagers turned out good.  They try my patience at times, but if I wait them out, I am uniformly awarded.  I just brew the ales in between the lagers while waiting them out.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline euge

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 08:03:36 AM »
I didn't think so - glad to see your lagers turned out good.  They try my patience at times, but if I wait them out, I am uniformly awarded.  I just brew the ales in between the lagers while waiting them out.

That's what I'm doing. Ideally the lagers would condition for six months at 32F. In order to keep up my production schedule I'll need a fourth fridge or freezer just for lagering. And free/cheap appliances are few and far between on Craigs list theses days.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline Jeff M

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 08:26:51 AM »
Id stay away from gelatin if you are going to start selling your beer.  Gelatin can make vegans and their ilk REALLY upset:)  Id look for a different option like isinglass or another commercial alternative.

Cheers,
Jeff
Jeff, Isinglass is made from the swim bladder of certain fish, so it is not vegan friendly.

BioFine clear and PVPP would be a good solution. SiO2 and a polymer, no animal products.

ah! i was under the impression that liquid isinglass was a refined form of irish moss.  thanks for the clarification Jeff!
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Building a clone of The Electric Brewery to use as a pilot system for new recipes!

Offline Steve in TX

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 09:40:49 AM »
I wonder if agar agar would work the same as gelatine? Vegan and kosher.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 10:47:05 AM »
I wonder if agar agar would work the same as gelatine? Vegan and kosher.

agar agar is irish moss no?

I've yet to try it but in my research it looks like Irish Moss should NOT work post fermentation like gelatin does because it carries the opposite charge. This means it's the same charge as the yeast and proteins the gelatin are supposed to precipitate out.

Not saying it won't work but the science is against it.
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Offline euge

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 12:37:20 PM »
As I have run out of beer (have two of 1vertical's in the fridge but saving those ;)) tapped a keg of the aforementioned Vienna lager.

Whew it's good. A little raw/green but totally drinkable. Light hop bitterness. Badass head. No turbidity. A little haze but totally clear. This beer has sat as long as the PET bottles.

As a matter of procedure I take a couple liters pre rack and post rack. Force carb in PET and I'm in heaven. So I noticed the wide difference in the two samples after they had set for several days. The first were much like what's in my glass now. Post rack though. :( What was caught up in there refused to settle out fully.

So this will be in my mind from now on: just a matter of avoiding kicking up any sediment while racking to keg when dealing with lagers. Probably a short term problem though. If I had some way to lager for six months without disturbing the kegs this wouldn't be an issue hmm....
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline afr0byte

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Re: Lager turbidity
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 11:35:59 AM »
agar agar is irish moss no?

They're both algae, but afaik they're not the same.