[HopDen]

Candi Syrup Substitute
« on: January 24, 2023, 11:57:38 am »
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I am formulating a Belgian Golden Strong recipe and I want to use Simplicity Candi Syrup. After scaling up to 18 gallons, that puts me at 10lbs for the recipe. Not cost effective. Simplicity is made from beet sugar and I am fairly certain their process is probably more involved than just adding beet sugar to water and boiling. With that said, if I add 10 lbs of beet sugar (cane) to water ( unknown amount at this time) heat to dissolve, boil for X, will that get me close to what simplicity is? It should definitely dry the beer out and hit the ABV I am looking for.

I could also do a 50/50 between simplicity and my own sugar concoction.
 

Posted this the other day about a Belgian Golden Strong. Thanks for the feedback people.

I decided to forgo the sugar or 50/50 blend and just splurge for the candi syrup. No other reason other than I want to get as close to a Duvel as potentially possible. I am not saying that I could hit the bullseye with sugar and I am definitely not saying I will get anywhere near what a Duvel is with the candi syrup. I have been researching and reading what I could on what a belgian golden strong is and have put together a recipe that is based off that and other folks recipes. Much like cooking, I enjoy stealing snippets of others recipes and form them into my own. Anywhoot, here it is.

Belgian Golden Strong:

RO Yellow Balanced

82% Dingemans Pilsen
18% Simplicity Candi Syrup

Styrian Bobek 70 mins. 26 IBU
CZ Saaz 20 mins. 8 IBU

WLP570 w/starter

1.085 OG est.
1.015 FG est. (may lower the mash temp below 148*)
34 IBU's
75 min. mash
70 min. low boil
Pitch yeast at 67 and let rise to 75

Just looked it up in BLAM. Duvel uses dextrose, not syrup. 17% of total fermentables.

What is this BLAM you speak of Oh Wise One?? LOL!

Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymus.  The definitive book on Belgian beer and how to brew it.

Welp, I will have have to take that under consideration for the next time I brew one. I can't recall what I read, maybe Beer&Brewing, Kearney/Stange?? they claimed it is syrup but don't hold me to those words. I will look and post.

Either way, I appreciate your feedback and would like to know what your opinions are for this recipe.

update:
Ok, Josh Weikert. May of 21' Beer&Brewing

[denny]

Candi Syrup Substitute
« on: January 24, 2023, 11:57:38 am »
QuoteModifyRemove
I am formulating a Belgian Golden Strong recipe and I want to use Simplicity Candi Syrup. After scaling up to 18 gallons, that puts me at 10lbs for the recipe. Not cost effective. Simplicity is made from beet sugar and I am fairly certain their process is probably more involved than just adding beet sugar to water and boiling. With that said, if I add 10 lbs of beet sugar (cane) to water ( unknown amount at this time) heat to dissolve, boil for X, will that get me close to what simplicity is? It should definitely dry the beer out and hit the ABV I am looking for.

I could also do a 50/50 between simplicity and my own sugar concoction.
 

Posted this the other day about a Belgian Golden Strong. Thanks for the feedback people.

I decided to forgo the sugar or 50/50 blend and just splurge for the candi syrup. No other reason other than I want to get as close to a Duvel as potentially possible. I am not saying that I could hit the bullseye with sugar and I am definitely not saying I will get anywhere near what a Duvel is with the candi syrup. I have been researching and reading what I could on what a belgian golden strong is and have put together a recipe that is based off that and other folks recipes. Much like cooking, I enjoy stealing snippets of others recipes and form them into my own. Anywhoot, here it is.

Belgian Golden Strong:

RO Yellow Balanced

82% Dingemans Pilsen
18% Simplicity Candi Syrup

Styrian Bobek 70 mins. 26 IBU
CZ Saaz 20 mins. 8 IBU

WLP570 w/starter

1.085 OG est.
1.015 FG est. (may lower the mash temp below 148*)
34 IBU's
75 min. mash
70 min. low boil
Pitch yeast at 67 and let rise to 75

Just looked it up in BLAM. Duvel uses dextrose, not syrup. 17% of total fermentables.

What is this BLAM you speak of Oh Wise One?? LOL!

Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymus.  The definitive book on Belgian beer and how to brew it.

Welp, I will have have to take that under consideration for the next time I brew one. I can't recall what I read, maybe Beer&Brewing, Kearney/Stange?? they claimed it is syrup but don't hold me to those words. I will look and post.

Either way, I appreciate your feedback and would like to know what your opinions are for this recipe.

update:
Ok, Josh Weikert. May of 21' Beer&Brewing

Josh is wrong on this one. He would agree with Stan. Recipe looks fine, other than the syrup. Won't really hurt, though.

[HopDen]

Candi Syrup Substitute
« on: January 24, 2023, 11:57:38 am »
QuoteModifyRemove
I am formulating a Belgian Golden Strong recipe and I want to use Simplicity Candi Syrup. After scaling up to 18 gallons, that puts me at 10lbs for the recipe. Not cost effective. Simplicity is made from beet sugar and I am fairly certain their process is probably more involved than just adding beet sugar to water and boiling. With that said, if I add 10 lbs of beet sugar (cane) to water ( unknown amount at this time) heat to dissolve, boil for X, will that get me close to what simplicity is? It should definitely dry the beer out and hit the ABV I am looking for.

I could also do a 50/50 between simplicity and my own sugar concoction.
 

Posted this the other day about a Belgian Golden Strong. Thanks for the feedback people.

I decided to forgo the sugar or 50/50 blend and just splurge for the candi syrup. No other reason other than I want to get as close to a Duvel as potentially possible. I am not saying that I could hit the bullseye with sugar and I am definitely not saying I will get anywhere near what a Duvel is with the candi syrup. I have been researching and reading what I could on what a belgian golden strong is and have put together a recipe that is based off that and other folks recipes. Much like cooking, I enjoy stealing snippets of others recipes and form them into my own. Anywhoot, here it is.

Belgian Golden Strong:

RO Yellow Balanced

82% Dingemans Pilsen
18% Simplicity Candi Syrup

Styrian Bobek 70 mins. 26 IBU
CZ Saaz 20 mins. 8 IBU

WLP570 w/starter

1.085 OG est.
1.015 FG est. (may lower the mash temp below 148*)
34 IBU's
75 min. mash
70 min. low boil
Pitch yeast at 67 and let rise to 75

Just looked it up in BLAM. Duvel uses dextrose, not syrup. 17% of total fermentables.

What is this BLAM you speak of Oh Wise One?? LOL!

Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymus.  The definitive book on Belgian beer and how to brew it.

Welp, I will have have to take that under consideration for the next time I brew one. I can't recall what I read, maybe Beer&Brewing, Kearney/Stange?? they claimed it is syrup but don't hold me to those words. I will look and post.

Either way, I appreciate your feedback and would like to know what your opinions are for this recipe.

update:
Ok, Josh Weikert. May of 21' Beer&Brewing

Josh is wrong on this one. He would agree with Stan. Recipe looks fine, other than the syrup. Won't really hurt, though.

As always, thanks for your feedback!!

[fredthecat]

god, i could go for some belgian golden strong and dry right now.

err, rather devil

[BrewBama]

Which brings us to the question: how much sugar is too much?  Evidently, 17% isn’t too much.

[fredthecat]

Which brings us to the question: how much sugar is too much?  Evidently, 17% isn’t too much.

"too much" is relative, but imho 17% is nearing a level when someone should very strongly consider the purpose of it. i dont think ive gone that high before? maybe 15%

not saying its bad at all. i do appreciate dry beers. dextrose/cane sugar is probably an understudied phenomena in homebrewing

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Which brings us to the question: how much sugar is too much?  Evidently, 17% isn’t too much.

"too much" is relative, but imho 17% is nearing a level when someone should very strongly consider the purpose of it. i dont think ive gone that high before? maybe 15%

not saying its bad at all. i do appreciate dry beers. dextrose/cane sugar is probably an understudied phenomena in homebrewing

There are authors (e.g. Mosher) who talk about using sugars (see Mastering Homebrew) in brewing to get flavors that are not available from malts. 

With 'unflavored' sugars, "how much is too much?" may be the wrong question to evaluate the wort.   Perhaps focus on the ratio of glucose, maltose, maltotriose, ...) and yeast strain needed to make the desired beer?   

[BrewBama]

I agree ‘it depends’. A lot of Belgian beers tend to use beet sugar, syrup, or rock and UK beers use invert sugars, treacle, and the like. …and of course there was the ‘can and a kilo’ early on.

I’ve always been leery of sugar additions due to the threats of ‘too much’ produces a cider-y taste so stuck to less than 10% and more often closer to 5% but see many recipes go as high as 20%. 

[denny]

Which brings us to the question: how much sugar is too much?  Evidently, 17% isn’t too much.

The general ROT is 20%. I've gone as high as 22.  I have never experienced ciders flavors. Dan Listermann did some tests nearly 25 years years ago. He determined that the cider flavors actually came from stale LME. The whole idea dates back to kit and kilo days, when you'd add a kilo ot sugar to a kit containing 3.3 lb. of generally stale LME.

[chinaski]

Today's brew is a Helles; part of which will be used to blend with a doppelbock that finished too high in gravity.

6% Peterson malt Heavy base (dark Munich)
94% Weyermann Pils
Diamond lager dry yeast

1.055

[fredthecat]

With 'unflavored' sugars, "how much is too much?" may be the wrong question to evaluate the wort.   Perhaps focus on the ratio of glucose, maltose, maltotriose, ...) and yeast strain needed to make the desired beer?

i think this is extremely interesting, and frankly beyoind my current ability/time to really study and figure out beyond "this yeast ate the right amount of sugars for me and gives a body i like". but that stuff is going to become a lot more detailed in yeast as time goes on.

The general ROT is 20%. I've gone as high as 22.  I have never experienced ciders flavors. Dan Listermann did some tests nearly 25 years years ago. He determined that the cider flavors actually came from stale LME. The whole idea dates back to kit and kilo days, when you'd add a kilo ot sugar to a kit containing 3.3 lb. of generally stale LME.

yeah that was always the great fear in discussion when i first started brewing. i think the way its discussed is a good indicator of "this may not be something objectively analyzed and accurate" - ie. lots of homebrewers say they get a 'cidery taste' from using cane sugar in their extract/kit/? brews - presumption it is from "too much cane sugar" YET the common knowledge is "oh belgians use cane sugar in their greatest beers!! but why are those beers fine? - oh well it must just be their skill/belgianness/the magic yeast" - those presumptive explanations are clearly not founded in any kind of analysis.


had a taste of a strong beer with ~11% of grist, 1.0 kg of dextrose added to it. it has really melded together over time and i would definitely use that much again in a future strong brew.

[denny]

I typically use about 20% cane sugar in my tripel. It has never tasted cidery.

[fredthecat]

I typically use about 20% cane sugar in my tripel. It has never tasted cidery.

yeah, thats what i would use in a duvel style. i havent made a tripel in forever, and those werent very good attempts at that time. again reading about that duvel/570 BGSA makes me want to have or make one some time.

[denny]

I typically use about 20% cane sugar in my tripel. It has never tasted cidery.

yeah, thats what i would use in a duvel style. i havent made a tripel in forever, and those werent very good attempts at that time. again reading about that duvel/570 BGSA makes me want to have or make one some time.

Duval is triple with a different yeast. Pretty much the same recipe otherwise.

[Fire Rooster]

AG Batch #84, (4.5-5 gal in Fermenter)

6.2 lbs Deer Creek Pilsner
1.3 lbs Deer Creek Double Dutch Munich
1 lb Deer Creek Pale Corn Malt (first time)

45 min, 1 oz Tettnanger Dried, 2022 Hops Direct AA 4.3
35 min, 1 oz Mt Hood Dried, 2022 Yakima Valley AA 3.7

6-7 oz's (Volume) Bottom Cropped Yeast from Wyeast 1469, Propper Starter

90 min Mash, 1/4 t gypsum
45 min Boil, 1/4 t gypsum

BIAB, Double Drop

Booooo, don't care for corn malt, or oat malt.
Dark Munich and corn malt don't play well together.
Now onto Flaked Rice, which I think will work well in small amounts.