Author Topic: Original Schneider mash schedule  (Read 972 times)

Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Original Schneider mash schedule
« on: January 18, 2014, 08:06:13 PM »
Hi guys!

I found a recipe for the original Schneider somewhere and could not understand the mash schedule very well.

It was printed this way:

Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse 
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Strike 5 15 93 93 Infuse 97 7.58 1.00 
Protein Rest 5 125 122 122 Infuse 212 2.93 1.39 
Low Mash 95 65 152 152 Decoc 212 4.60 0.65 (Decoc Thickness) 
High Mash 40 30 166 166 Decoc 212 3.01 1.50 (Decoc Thickness) 
Sparge 5 30 168 168 Infuse 180 2.01 1.65 

How long does each part last? Is there a step time and a rest time?

Thanks for the help!

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1517
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 05:09:40 AM »
I think the second figure is the time for each rest.  The third is the temperature to reach for the main mash in that step.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1579
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 10:46:04 AM »
Step rest name | Start time | Stop time | Heat temp | Infuse temp | Infuse type | Infuse temp | Infuse amount | ratio

If you spread out the numbers in a chart under those headings it will make a little more sense than having it bunched up. It's weird how they have set up the times because some of the counts go up and some go down based upon whether you are infusing or mashing. I can't see the temperatures reading as simple start and stop times for the mash because some of the stop times are less than the start time. Plus, why would you protein rest for two hours? Instead, I read this as an instruction for what the brewer should be doing rather than a schedule of what the mash will be doing.

I might be wrong but this is how I interpret this:

Strike (acid rest): infuse water, stir 5 minutes and let rest another 10 minutes (5 and 15)

Protein rest: infuse water, stir 5 minutes and rest for 30 minutes (after the five minutes you are setting a 125 minute countdown).

Low mash: At 95 minutes remaining pull the decoction. Add it at 65 to raise the temperature to 152. This decoction could be rested in the 150s before boiling because you have half an hour to get it to boiling. Or you may want to just boil for thirty minutes.

High mash: At 40 minutes remaining pull the next decoction. Add it at 30 minutes remaining to raise the temperature to 166. Since you have ten minutes to hit boil on the decoction no rest should occur.

Sparge: When the timer runs out you will infuse with sparge water for thirty minutes. It will take about five minutes to raise the temperature of the mash to mash out temperatures.

That would give you a mash schedule of:

Acid rest: 15 minutes
Protein rest: 1 hour
Beta rest: 35 minutes
Alpha rest: 30 minutes
Sparge: 30 minutes

Which is about the same schedule you find for many decoction mashes. You would normally see this schedule presented in a recipe like:

Acid rest: infuse and rest 15 minutes
Protein rest: infuse and rest 1 hour, at 30 minutes remaining pull decoction
Beta rest: add decoction and rest 35 minutes. At 10 minutes remaining pull decoction
Alpha rest: add decoction and rest 30 minutes.
Sparge: vorlouf, infuse and sparge.

Along with the volumes and temperatures, of course.

You may also not want to do a full hour on the protein rest. You may or may not want to do an acid rest depending upon your needs to acidify your water source.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1517
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 02:39:35 PM »
That makes sense.  The time for getting a decoction to a boil is tricky, though - the bigger the batch, the greater the decoction size, the longer it takes to get the decoction to a boil....  That can affect the rest time, if you can't get it to a boil in the allotted time.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 03:18:52 AM »
Thank you guys for your insights! I will try it next time! =)

I actually did my mash this way (because I'm inexperienced)

30 mins at 50C
15 mins at 66C
15 mins at 70C
10 mins at 77C

Then did a batch sparge.

The expected OG was 1.043 but I messed something and my OG was 1.024.

Is there an easy way to fix it?

Take care!

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 04:09:06 AM by guerrinha »

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1579
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 09:26:59 AM »
Are you sure that OG reading is right?
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 09:29:39 AM »
I'm pretty sure. Will take another reading when I get home!

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 03:08:02 PM »
Checked it again. I will brew it again this week and dump this one.

What you guys think?



Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 5671
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 03:45:56 PM »
Is this what they did long ago? If that is the case, you need some undermodified wheat malt, correct?

Assuming this was a step mash, I would also go longer at the scarification rests, 45 minutes low, maybe the same for the high. Accurate thermometer? Did you check the mash pH also?
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
Hi!
I think my problems were many!

1. Not the correct time for low and high rests
2. Maybe the grain was not milled properly.
3. Miscalculations on my volume.

Thanks for the insights.

I just bought beersmith. Was using different calculators. No good.

=)  will brew again and let you know what happened!

Well, I'm a beginner anyway! Haha

Take care!

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 5671
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 04:31:44 PM »
We were all beginners at one time!
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1517
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 08:09:39 PM »
I'm a beginner still - only one BIAB style, batch only a few decoctions, a few step mashes, and over a hundred single infusion batch sparges.  Just try to find what works best for you and run with it!
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1579
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2014, 08:08:24 AM »
Yeah if the grain was poorly milled and/or the times were off for the mashes then that would explain the low OG. It's probably an ok beer, just really light. Might as well ferment it out and see how it is. It's making you a nice batch of yeast to use for next time.

Getting the right decoction volume is extremely important to hitting the right temperatures. I also find you need to hit boiling on the decoction and boil for several minutes so the whole decoction is at boiling temperatures. Don't just let it start to look like it's boiling and add it to the mash. It won't be hot enough.

I think Beersmith is extremely accurate at calculating decoction mash volumes. As long as you follow the above advice you should hit your temperatures by following beersmith's schedule.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline guerrinha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2014, 08:32:23 AM »
Hey!

Do you really think it's worth keeping it? Maybe boiling some sugar and adding to it will do it good?

I was thinking in rebrewing it and tossing this batch away.

I bought beersmith and already have set up all my stuff there! :D Very organized. Can't wait to brew a new batch. I created a step mashing profile:

protein rest: 30 mins at 50C
sacarification rest: 45 mins at 66C
sacarification rest: 45 mins at 70C
mash out: 10 mins at 77C

I read many stuff around and concluded that it's a good begining point that i can test and tune in future brews.

Another question i have: i will do a batch sparge and beersmith says i should do batch sparge in three steps (drain mash tun, 14.82l, 14.82l of 77C water). Does it mean that i drain, then put 14.82l, drain and then put 14.82l again? Or just 14.82l once?

Thanks guys!

Thanks!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13305
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Original Schneider mash schedule
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2014, 09:34:00 AM »
You need to understand that Beersmith is a tool to help you brew the way you want to brew.  It should not be considered instructions on how to brew.  Unless your mash tun is too small to fit all the sparge water at once, there is no reason to do 2 sparges.  Simply run off your mash and all of your sparge water at once. 

And as Jeff pointed out, unless you have undermodified malt, you should probably skip the protein rest.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe