Author Topic: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout  (Read 1372 times)

Offline In The Sand

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« on: January 23, 2014, 05:42:07 PM »
Want to brew a mocha stout.  Not planning on adding any lactose, so maybe I can't really call it a mocha stout.  I plan on adding cocoa powder to the end of the boil and cacao nibs after primary is finished.  I bought two types of cocoa powder:  Nestle Nesquik and Hershey's Natural Unsweetened Cocoa.  This is a 10-gal batch that I could try each if I wasn't adding it to the boil.  I'm using about 3.5% each of roasted barley and chocolate malt.  I'm also using 2 lbs of oats.  Yeast of choice is a 2 L starter with WLP004.  Any ideas as to how I could get a sweet chocolate taste balance with a roasted coffee-like flavor, but keeping the chocolate as the dominant flavor?  Is there anything wrong with using Nesquik?  Maybe some preservatives that will inhibit fermentation?
Trey W.

Online Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3618
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 06:10:14 PM »
Nesquik is mostly sugar. According to the nutrition info, 13g of each 16g serving is sugar (that's 81%). Most of the other ingredients you don't need in beer either, but nothing that will hurt fermentation.  The sugar means you'll have to add at least 5 times more nesquik by weight to get the same chocolate flavor. Also, the chocolate flavor is from - cocoa powder. So I'd stick with the unsweetened cocoa powder, which is entirely cocoa.
You can add cocoa powder at the end of the boil. It will turn into sludge in the bottom of your kettle. Bad news if you use a counterflow chiller or have any sort of screen in the kettle.
Are you adding any coffee? I'd add 1 or 2 ounces of whole coffee beans after primary fermentation for subtle coffee flavor.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline ajk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 06:19:00 PM »

Are you adding any coffee? I'd add 1 or 2 ounces of whole coffee beans after primary fermentation for subtle coffee flavor.
I don't know about beer, but a little coffee can bring out the chocolate flavor in baked goods. I use espresso powder in chocolate Christmas cookies. Not enough for anyone to identify is as coffee.

Offline In The Sand

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 06:40:42 PM »

Nesquik is mostly sugar. According to the nutrition info, 13g of each 16g serving is sugar (that's 81%). Most of the other ingredients you don't need in beer either, but nothing that will hurt fermentation.  The sugar means you'll have to add at least 5 times more nesquik by weight to get the same chocolate flavor. Also, the chocolate flavor is from - cocoa powder. So I'd stick with the unsweetened cocoa powder, which is entirely cocoa.
You can add cocoa powder at the end of the boil. It will turn into sludge in the bottom of your kettle. Bad news if you use a counterflow chiller or have any sort of screen in the kettle.
Are you adding any coffee? I'd add 1 or 2 ounces of whole coffee beans after primary fermentation for subtle coffee flavor.

That explains why the last time a buddy and I used 4 oz cocoa powder at the end of the boil I had a clog. I use a hop stopper and a plate chiller.

Would it then be better to add after primary has finished when I add the cacao nibs?
Trey W.

Online HoosierBrew

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6228
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 06:43:15 PM »
What you describe as wanting in your beer makes a good case to use some lactose - sort of a chocolate cream stout. +1 to the idea of a little coffee to compliment the chocolate as well.
Jon H.

Online Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3618
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 07:35:33 PM »

Nesquik is mostly sugar. According to the nutrition info, 13g of each 16g serving is sugar (that's 81%). Most of the other ingredients you don't need in beer either, but nothing that will hurt fermentation.  The sugar means you'll have to add at least 5 times more nesquik by weight to get the same chocolate flavor. Also, the chocolate flavor is from - cocoa powder. So I'd stick with the unsweetened cocoa powder, which is entirely cocoa.
You can add cocoa powder at the end of the boil. It will turn into sludge in the bottom of your kettle. Bad news if you use a counterflow chiller or have any sort of screen in the kettle.
Are you adding any coffee? I'd add 1 or 2 ounces of whole coffee beans after primary fermentation for subtle coffee flavor.

That explains why the last time a buddy and I used 4 oz cocoa powder at the end of the boil I had a clog. I use a hop stopper and a plate chiller.

Would it then be better to add after primary has finished when I add the cacao nibs?
Hehe, yeah. My kettle has a screen. I've only done this once and I wound up pouring everything into the fermenter. Better to add after primary? Never tried it. Actually, I'm wondering if the powder and nibs contribute the same flavor. May not be any reason to use both.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 07:43:06 PM »
Why not use Bakers chocolate or Ghirardelli chocolate and add to the end of the boil. Actually, if you want powder, Ghirardelli has cocoa powder of sorts. Check at Walmart in the baking isle.... You'll find much better quality chocolate products there than chocolate milk mix.
Frank

Offline Steve in TX

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2950
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 07:58:13 PM »
An easy way to avoid the clumping is to pull a half gallon of wort, mix in the cocoa, add back to the kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4807
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 10:36:10 PM »
Interesting thread. I'm going to do a stout after I get an Irish Red, and a Marsen going. Debating between Milk and Sweet. I want to lager it till fall then keep a bottle of Torani Chocolate by the tap. Add to taste. Anyone ever try that?

Offline Steve in TX

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2950
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 11:06:20 PM »

...Torani Chocolate by the tap. Add to taste. Anyone ever try that?

Funny enough, I've added raspberry Torani to a berliner before. Couldn't get the real stuff and World Market was in walking distance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4807
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 11:15:10 PM »
Redneck Himbeer?

Offline Steve in TX

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2950
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 11:39:43 PM »

Online Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3618
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 07:50:43 AM »
An easy way to avoid the clumping is to pull a half gallon of wort, mix in the cocoa, add back to the kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Clumping wasn't a problem for me. It absorbed liquid and formed a nice sludge layer over everything mesh in my kettle.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline dak0415

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Winston-Salem, NC
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 08:53:25 AM »
The Hershey's powder is defatted.  I use it in the secondary and I mash with .5lb of Simpsons coffee malt. (150L).  I pull about 1 cup of beer off, heat it, and dissolve the powder in that before I add it to the fermenter.

Dave Koenig
Anything worth doing - is worth overdoing!

Offline Joe Sr.

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2948
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Which Cocoa Powder for a Mocha Stout
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 09:17:31 AM »
Why not use Bakers chocolate or Ghirardelli chocolate and add to the end of the boil. Actually, if you want powder, Ghirardelli has cocoa powder of sorts. Check at Walmart in the baking isle.... You'll find much better quality chocolate products there than chocolate milk mix.

Bakers chocolate is what I use in my stout.  Usually Ghirardelli, but sometimes the regular baking bar in a red package (Nestle?).  I go for a minimum if 80% cacao in the bar.  I add four ounces to the boil, never had an issue with sludge nor with head retention.

I may have used Ghirardelli powder once or twice, but that would have been years ago.

Regardless, the chocolate flavor comes through.  It is a background flavor, but it is there.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton