Author Topic: reiterate the importance of patience  (Read 597 times)

Offline goschman

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reiterate the importance of patience
« on: January 31, 2014, 08:50:25 AM »
Just a venting post here. I am very disappointed in myself.

I brewed what I call a "session ale" with S04 and decided to keg after 10 days since the yeast had dropped clear and it appeared to have a good, robust fermentation between 62-66F. I usually let it sit for 14-21 days but rushed it due to lack of homebrew. I did not look at the hydrometer reading until after kegging was done. The beer was super clear and there was a compact yeast cake at the bottom of the bucket.

There is a possibility that it was done but it finished at 1.016 (65% attenuation) instead of 1.011 which was anticipated. I mashed at 158F for the first time but I doubt it would have such a large impact. If I would have had the patience I would have taken a hydrometer reading while it was still in the fermenter, roused the yeast, and warmed it up. I could have transferred the keg back to fermenter but honestly did not want to deal with it.

The thing that make me angry is I don't know if it was done or not. This is a beer that I am trying to develop as a regular so results of this batch will likely be inconclusive due to the high FG and lower ABV.

ALWAYS TAKE HYDROMETER READINGS BEFORE PACKAGING YOUR BEER!! I know this but I still let impatience get the best of me. It is funny how much of an amateur I sill am after years of brewing...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 08:55:35 AM by goschman »

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 08:53:49 AM »
How's it taste? Hydrometer just tells you the density, not if it's done.

I've gotten almost that low attenuation on a session beer with a 162 mash temp.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I've been guilty on several occasions of rushing things.

Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 09:11:43 AM »
How's it taste? Hydrometer just tells you the density, not if it's done.

I've gotten almost that low attenuation on a session beer with a 162 mash temp.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I've been guilty on several occasions of rushing things.

This is my third time brewing this beer but the first time I have mashed at 158F. The last batch had 75% attenuation when mashing at 156 and finished at 1.011 so I doubt 2 degrees would make much of a difference.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 09:17:18 AM »
How's it taste? Hydrometer just tells you the density, not if it's done.

I've gotten almost that low attenuation on a session beer with a 162 mash temp.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I've been guilty on several occasions of rushing things.

This is my third time brewing this beer but the first time I have mashed at 158F. The last batch had 75% attenuation when mashing at 156 and finished at 1.011 so I doubt 2 degrees would make much of a difference.

yeah, that seems pretty extreme. any cold swings in your fermentation area?

Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 09:24:08 AM »
How's it taste? Hydrometer just tells you the density, not if it's done.

I've gotten almost that low attenuation on a session beer with a 162 mash temp.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I've been guilty on several occasions of rushing things.

This is my third time brewing this beer but the first time I have mashed at 158F. The last batch had 75% attenuation when mashing at 156 and finished at 1.011 so I doubt 2 degrees would make much of a difference.

yeah, that seems pretty extreme. any cold swings in your fermentation area?

Nope stayed mostly at 64 but was in the range of 62-66 the whole time and seemed to have a pretty vigoruous fermentation. Gonna just have to try this one again. The good thing is it reminds me not to be impatient and to follow proper procdure.

Offline Steve in TX

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 10:27:37 AM »
Do you perform a mash out. If not, the first batch may have continued to convert while the later batch didn't. Personally I never mash out, but I light the fire as soon as I have the wort in the kettle.
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Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 10:54:03 AM »
Do you perform a mash out. If not, the first batch may have continued to convert while the later batch didn't. Personally I never mash out, but I light the fire as soon as I have the wort in the kettle.

I actually did make one procedural change and did get higher efficiency than normal on this batch. I sparged with 187F water which is higher than normal. I normally calculate my sparge water temp based on the mash temp. When I collected the first runnings, I noticed that the remaining grain was at 140. I used this to calculate a higher sparge water temp than I normally use.

I added the sparge water, gave a good stir, then started to collect 2nd runnings which were 168-170F. In the past I have noticed that this is closer to 160.

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Offline Steve in TX

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 10:56:59 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.
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Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 11:09:19 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.

That is good to know. I normally get higher than average attenuation possibly due to low sparge temps. This procedural change could drastically impact the results I have been getting. I prefer drier beers so would like higher attenuation in most cases.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 11:13:06 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.

That is good to know. I normally get higher than average attenuation possibly due to low sparge temps. This procedural change could drastically impact the results I have been getting. I prefer drier beers so would like higher attenuation in most cases.

Yup, and it might actually cause the result you saw. still seems like an extreme reaction but it's a good trick to know if you can reproduce it. love me some big malty session beer.

Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 11:16:33 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.

That is good to know. I normally get higher than average attenuation possibly due to low sparge temps. This procedural change could drastically impact the results I have been getting. I prefer drier beers so would like higher attenuation in most cases.

Yup, and it might actually cause the result you saw. still seems like an extreme reaction but it's a good trick to know if you can reproduce it. love me some big malty session beer.

This beer is much more malty than I expected and has an interesting butterscotch quality. Considering I only used 20% munich it seems to cut through more than I am accustomed to. Also, S04 has been giving me very clean beers of late. This one definitely seems to have more of an English feel. Balanced with the citrusy American hops will make this pretty interesting.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:22:28 AM by goschman »

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 11:42:00 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.

That is good to know. I normally get higher than average attenuation possibly due to low sparge temps. This procedural change could drastically impact the results I have been getting. I prefer drier beers so would like higher attenuation in most cases.

Yup, and it might actually cause the result you saw. still seems like an extreme reaction but it's a good trick to know if you can reproduce it. love me some big malty session beer.

This beer is much more malty than I expected and has an interesting butterscotch quality. Considering I only used 20% munich it seems to cut through more than I am accustomed to. Also, S04 has been giving me very clean beers of late. This one definitely seems to have more of an English feel. Balanced with the citrusy American hops will make this pretty interesting.

ooh butterscotch huh? is it diacetyl do you think? is it possible you way over pitched this? that can cause a really vigorous early fermentation followed by a premature flocculation (excellent homebrew related band name by the way "Premature Flocculation")

Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 11:52:30 AM »

Could this change the fermentability of the wort?

Possibly. From what I understand, larger sugars can continue to get broken down into simpler sugars if you do not hit that 168-170 temp.

That is good to know. I normally get higher than average attenuation possibly due to low sparge temps. This procedural change could drastically impact the results I have been getting. I prefer drier beers so would like higher attenuation in most cases.

Yup, and it might actually cause the result you saw. still seems like an extreme reaction but it's a good trick to know if you can reproduce it. love me some big malty session beer.

This beer is much more malty than I expected and has an interesting butterscotch quality. Considering I only used 20% munich it seems to cut through more than I am accustomed to. Also, S04 has been giving me very clean beers of late. This one definitely seems to have more of an English feel. Balanced with the citrusy American hops will make this pretty interesting.

ooh butterscotch huh? is it diacetyl do you think? is it possible you way over pitched this? that can cause a really vigorous early fermentation followed by a premature flocculation (excellent homebrew related band name by the way "Premature Flocculation")

Good point. I am not sure. I only used one 11 g packet for a 5 gallon batch so I don't think I overpitched. The other thing I was going to do was warm it up for a couple of days but obviosly didn't do that. Damn...I am off my game.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:55:05 AM by goschman »

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 12:25:05 PM »
I suggest brewing it again, right away and doing what you proposed to do the first time.  Do this while you have your current batch to drink, so you won't feel rushed to keg it early.  I like the fact that my brewing has finally settled into a groove with ales and lagers and not waiting on beer to finish, because I had no or few beers to choose from - now I brew and push lingering beers to bottles and growlers from the tap to empty a keg or two when necessary to free up a fermenter.  My beers almost uniformly sit in primary for a month this way.
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Offline goschman

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Re: reiterate the importance of patience
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 12:30:26 PM »
Good advice. I had a brewing schedule set that I would hate to break but it would probably be best to do so. I was normally letting my batches primary for 21 days but somehow got out of that habit...not sure why.