Author Topic: fixing diacetyl in keg?  (Read 2453 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 05:30:22 PM »
Hard to say without tasting, but some people mistake munich's melanoidins as diacetyl

Offline goschman

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 05:53:45 PM »
Hard to say without tasting, but some people mistake munich's melanoidins as diacetyl

True. If I hadn't have made a 100% munich beer then I probably wouldn't be sure. This 20% munich beer definitely has a butterscotch quality that wasn't in the 100% munich beer.
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Offline denny

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2014, 10:49:33 AM »
Hard to say without tasting, but some people mistake munich's melanoidins as diacetyl

Don't fall into the trap of thinking melanoidins are a flavor.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 03:15:14 AM »
It's color right? But they don't contribute to flavor?

In any event I used the wrong word. Then I had to figure out where I got that from. BJCP Scottish guide states kettle caramelizing gets mistaken for Diacetyl...my apologies. Product of distance learning and too eager to share what was not fully learned. I'll keep an eye on that. Stick to what I know, rather than heard.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:38:13 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline denny

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 09:58:58 AM »
It's color right? But they don't contribute to flavor?

In any event I used the wrong word. Then I had to figure out where I got that from. BJCP Scottish guide states kettle caramelizing gets mistaken for Diacetyl...my apologies. Product of distance learning and too eager to share what was not fully learned. I'll keep an eye on that. Stick to what I know, rather than heard.

Yep, color, no flavor.  However, some of the sane reactions that form melanoidins will also form flavors.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2014, 10:49:05 AM »
It's color right? But they don't contribute to flavor?

In any event I used the wrong word. Then I had to figure out where I got that from. BJCP Scottish guide states kettle caramelizing gets mistaken for Diacetyl...my apologies. Product of distance learning and too eager to share what was not fully learned. I'll keep an eye on that. Stick to what I know, rather than heard.

it's OK.  When I see melanoidins I think "I knew what you meant", especially when we know you are studying for a possible BJCP exam, and we've got style guidelines that use that word in more than one spot:
5C. Doppelbock
Aroma: Very strong maltiness. Darker versions will have significant melanoidins...
Flavor: Very rich and malty. Darker versions will have significant melanoidins...
Comments: Most versions are dark colored and may display the caramelizing and melanoidin effect of decoction mashing...

unless they are REALLY boiling it down they aren't caramelizing either, but I think a good portion of people know what it means when they read it.

Offline Bruce B

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2014, 04:05:27 PM »
Here is a link to a good article on White Lab's site regarding diacetyl - http://www.whitelabs.com/files/Diacetyl_Time_Line.pdf
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Offline goschman

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2014, 04:55:45 PM »
Here is a link to a good article on White Lab's site regarding diacetyl - http://www.whitelabs.com/files/Diacetyl_Time_Line.pdf

Thanks for the info! I think the section below is what happened to me. I don't normally do any type of diacetyl rest because I have have never fallen victim to it. Normally I keep batches in the primary for longer which gives it time to clean up. I pulled this one off the yeast too soon...

"Usually the diacetyl rest is begun when the beer is 2 to 5 specific gravity points away from the target terminal gravity. The temperature is then lowered to conditioning temperature following diacetyl reduction. For ale production, the fermentation temperature is usually 65-70F, so temperature modification is not necessary. But the fermentation should still be "rested" at this temperature for two days to ensure proper diacetyl reduction. Many brewers make the mistake to quickly crash the fermentation temperature following
terminal gravity. Why not? The beer is done, people are thirsty, and there is no taste of diacetyl in the beer. Even though the diacetyl can't be tasted, however, the beer may contain high levels of the precursor,
acetolactate, which can be converted to diacetyl. Once the yeast is removed, there is no way to get rid of
the diacetyl."
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2014, 05:30:02 AM »
My experience is that no diacetyl will form if you keep your beers in the primary for a month or so.  That said, if you rack before that, but at terminal gravity, there is still enough yeast in the racked beer to clean up diacetyl by warming the keg.  How long depends on how much yeast remains and you may have to swirl it up to finish off the diacetyl.  Any more I am usually 6 weeks grain to glass with ales and 8 weeks for lagers.  Time heals this issue, as long as it is not infection related.

Seeing the 158 mash temp, the 1.016 FG is not entirely out of line for this beer (despite the low ABV) but it might have cleaned up the diacetyl and dropped a few points further by waiting.
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Offline goschman

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Re: fixing diacetyl in keg?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2014, 09:29:44 AM »
Yep...still a bit angry at myself for my lack of patience.

So I brought the keg inside, shook it up to disturb any settled yeast, and brough it up to 70F. I know from earlier comment this may not help but it makes me feel like I am somehow doing something. I will report back what changes occur even if they are more coincidences than results from my actions.
On Tap/Bottled:                       
XPA #6 / Spiced Baltic Porter / Cantaloupe Kolsch / Saison Claire / Amber Rye Kolsch
              
Fermenting: Double Kolsch
Up Next: Pumpkin Brown, XPA #7, Hoppy Lager