Author Topic: Bru'n water and cold steep  (Read 1510 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 12:35:03 AM »
Martin did have some rings to say about this in the  water article about Dublin recently in Zymurgy.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 04:44:22 AM »
I don't brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite. I reserve cold steeping for things like Dunkels, Ambers, Alts, etc., where I am using a roasted malt solely for color and really want as little roasted flavor as possible. I find that cold steeping mutes some of the roasty character from these malts.

I saw a night and day difference in my dark beers when I started targeting the very upper end of the mash pH range. I'm not really sure how I'd factor that in for cold-steeped grain. But, as Denny said, only one way to find out...
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Offline fmader

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 11:14:38 AM »
I don't brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite.
If you use enough, you still can make it as roasty as you'd like it to be. You just eliminate the unpleasant bitterness... At least I find it unpleasant. But as you guys are doing with adjusting the pH, you're probably eliminating it too this way. I'm not that knowledgable with water chemistry at this point and am kinda on the fence about making that great leap.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 11:17:48 AM »
Martin did have some rings to say about this in the  water article about Dublin recently in Zymurgy.
Thanks I'll look back at that.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 01:02:36 PM »
I don't brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite.
If you use enough, you still can make it as roasty as you'd like it to be. You just eliminate the unpleasant bitterness... At least I find it unpleasant. But as you guys are doing with adjusting the pH, you're probably eliminating it too this way. I'm not that knowledgable with water chemistry at this point and am kinda on the fence about making that great leap.

come on down and have some of my the american oatmeal stout i have on tap right now - i guarantee you you'll make the leap!
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 01:07:16 PM »
I don't brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite.
If you use enough, you still can make it as roasty as you'd like it to be. You just eliminate the unpleasant bitterness... At least I find it unpleasant. But as you guys are doing with adjusting the pH, you're probably eliminating it too this way. I'm not that knowledgable with water chemistry at this point and am kinda on the fence about making that great leap.

come on down and have some of my the american oatmeal stout i have on tap right now - i guarantee you you'll make the leap!

+1.  Same for my foreign export !
Jon H.

Offline fmader

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2014, 01:22:58 PM »
I don't brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite.
If you use enough, you still can make it as roasty as you'd like it to be. You just eliminate the unpleasant bitterness... At least I find it unpleasant. But as you guys are doing with adjusting the pH, you're probably eliminating it too this way. I'm not that knowledgable with water chemistry at this point and am kinda on the fence about making that great leap.

come on down and have some of my the american oatmeal stout i have on tap right now - i guarantee you you'll make the leap!

+1.  Same for my foreign export !

Haha... Wanna come have one of my Breakfast Stouts? I like to describe it as perfect  ;D

Hence the reason why I'm on the fence.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 01:25:04 PM by fmader »
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 01:43:43 PM »
Yep, I would, Frank !  I made good beers cold steeping, no arguments. I just found it easier when I got a handle on pH to mash it together. Lots of ways of making good beer though.
Jon H.

Offline mchrispen

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 04:01:15 PM »
Quote
ahh yes, the paid version [/size] one of these days I swear I will get that.



Really it is worth it. I find I spend more time tinkering in it than in BeerSmith. The cross linked values alone are worth a few bucks. Martin is so good about NOT flogging the paid version that I felt I needed to... that and it restored my hope to brew pretty good beer. Seriously - my tap water sucks.


I am very curious now as well. I shifted to cold steeping for stouts and porters, but that was when I was using pretty bad water and having to use silly amounts of acid. I am also on all RO now - but would have to add some lime/baking soda to bring the pH up on a full mash stout or a porter. I typically target no higher than 5.4, but now am curious about Hoosier's experience with the 5.5 range and a full mash. I would like to believe a fuller and richer flavor would come from a full malt mash - maybe the issue is more with roast malt choice? Seems like debittered black and chocolate are fairly common. And cold steep roast and crystal? or just the roast?


I need to find the time to do some side/side small batches to compare.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Bru'n water and cold steep
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2014, 04:56:20 PM »
Quote
ahh yes, the paid version [/size] one of these days I swear I will get that.



Really it is worth it. I find I spend more time tinkering in it than in BeerSmith. The cross linked values alone are worth a few bucks. Martin is so good about NOT flogging the paid version that I felt I needed to... that and it restored my hope to brew pretty good beer. Seriously - my tap water sucks.


I am very curious now as well. I shifted to cold steeping for stouts and porters, but that was when I was using pretty bad water and having to use silly amounts of acid. I am also on all RO now - but would have to add some lime/baking soda to bring the pH up on a full mash stout or a porter. I typically target no higher than 5.4, but now am curious about Hoosier's experience with the 5.5 range and a full mash. I would like to believe a fuller and richer flavor would come from a full malt mash - maybe the issue is more with roast malt choice? Seems like debittered black and chocolate are fairly common. And cold steep roast and crystal? or just the roast?


I need to find the time to do some side/side small batches to compare.


Yeah, that's where the experimentation comes in. Some people (like me) like a bit of the roasted bite in their porter or stout, where others go for a smoother beer. I used .75 lbs roasted barley and .5 lb chocolate in my last stout, and these were mashed with the rest of the grist. The end result was an assertive, but pleasant level of roast, balanced well by the crystal I used. I mashed a very similar grist before @ down near 5.2 pH and the result was a more harsh, acrid beer. After this I cold steeped and got a smoother beer, a bit smoother than I wanted. So for the type of dark beer I like, I've found that targeting 5.4 - 5.5 mash pH, 5.5 being ideal, gives a malty, balanced beer. But the amounts of roasted grain is like advising on the amount of fruit to use in a beer - you just have to experiment to find out what you like.
Jon H.