Author Topic: % of IBUs from bittering addition?  (Read 1083 times)

Offline a10t2

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 02:33:47 PM »
With that said, do any brewers have rules of thumb they could share with respect to the size and timing of their flavor and aroma additions in typical batches?

Typically, I target 250 g/bbl for each addition (15 min, flameout with 30 min whirlpool) in an APA, and double that in IPAs (20 min, 10 min, flameout, dry hop). My APAs are pretty much an Americanized interpretation of something like a Premium Bitter.
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Offline michaeltrego

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 03:49:04 PM »
I've been moving away from this a bit lately as I try to cram more and more hop flavor into my hoppy beers, but for a while my rule of thumb had been:

APA's: ~20 IBU from FWH, no 60-minute addition, remainder in late additions
IPA's: 1/3 IBU from FWH, 1/3 from Chinook, Columbus or Nugget at 60 minutes, 1/3 from late additions.

Now I've started to move to:

APA's: ~40 IBU from FWH, 1-1.5 oz/gallon flameout hops added after wort hits ~185F, 30-minute hop stand
IPA's: ~30 IBU's from Columbus/Chinook/Nugget @60 min if I want more snap to my bitterness, otherwise no 60-minute addition, 3-4 oz/gallon at flameout as soon as all boiling activity stops, 90-minute hop stand

Just curious, what formula do you use for FWH IBU?  I currently have ProMash set to calc FWH as -50% utilization, which is effectively the same IBU as a 15 min addition.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 04:19:56 PM »
I've been moving away from this a bit lately as I try to cram more and more hop flavor into my hoppy beers, but for a while my rule of thumb had been:

APA's: ~20 IBU from FWH, no 60-minute addition, remainder in late additions
IPA's: 1/3 IBU from FWH, 1/3 from Chinook, Columbus or Nugget at 60 minutes, 1/3 from late additions.

Now I've started to move to:

APA's: ~40 IBU from FWH, 1-1.5 oz/gallon flameout hops added after wort hits ~185F, 30-minute hop stand
IPA's: ~30 IBU's from Columbus/Chinook/Nugget @60 min if I want more snap to my bitterness, otherwise no 60-minute addition, 3-4 oz/gallon at flameout as soon as all boiling activity stops, 90-minute hop stand

Just curious, what formula do you use for FWH IBU?  I currently have ProMash set to calc FWH as -50% utilization, which is effectively the same IBU as a 15 min addition.

I used to calculate it as a 20 minute addition but then I did a blind tasting of the same beer hopped at 60 or FWH and the FWH was noticably more bitter. now I use the 60 minute + 20%

Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 04:26:55 PM »
Beersmith has a setting for fwh. I think it's close to what mort said.  I've started using fwh and it is a smoother bitterness.  But definitely more perceived bitterness

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Offline euge

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2014, 08:08:27 PM »
I have absolutely no nose for hops and they nearly all smell the same. I'm at least two thirds bittering hops then it's a flavor addition or two. Last batch though I did a Fuggles FWH @180 for 30 minutes. Haven't done a FWH in years. Hoping for the goodness I fondly remember

Try doing a single 50bu bittering charge @30 minutes of a high alpha like chinook or columbus. A great approach to allergy season.

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Online erockrph

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2014, 06:03:59 AM »
Just curious, what formula do you use for FWH IBU?  I currently have ProMash set to calc FWH as -50% utilization, which is effectively the same IBU as a 15 min addition.

Currently, I treat it like a 20 minute addition. This is what Brewer's Friend calculates it as, so that's convenient for me.

But I'm starting to waffle a bit on this. There is definitely a difference between "amount" and "quality" of bitterness. A FWH or hopstand addition definitely has a smoother quality to the bitterness, and that is why treating FWH as a 20-minute addition makes sense. But the amount of bitterness is still there. In the end I think you're better off thinking in the mindset of "X IBU's from a FWH plus Y IBU's from a bittering addition plus Z IBU's from my finishing hops are going to give me what I'm looking for in this beer", because they're not all equivalent. Simply adding together the IBU's from all your additions isn't necessarily going to give you the same results.

Here's what really cemented my thinking on this: I brewed an IPA over the summer using nothing but flameout hops with a long hopstand and dry hops. I sent it to a lab and it measured 98 IBU's. It only tasted like 60 IBU's to me, and it was a really smooth bitterness (similar to what I get from FWH). It was super drinkable, like an amped up APA. But I typically drink beer at the end of the night (i.e., not with a meal). The first time I had one of these IPA's with food I instantly tasted every one of those 98 IBU's. It was a bizarre experience. So, while the bitterness was far from enamel-stripping, it still totally blew out my palate for food. My new philosophy is "Not all IBU's are created equal".
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Offline michaeltrego

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2014, 08:11:08 AM »
I have absolutely no nose for hops and they nearly all smell the same.

That's sad.

Offline michaeltrego

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2014, 08:26:28 AM »
I used to calculate it as a 20 minute addition but then I did a blind tasting of the same beer hopped at 60 or FWH and the FWH was noticably more bitter. now I use the 60 minute + 20%

My new philosophy is "Not all IBU's are created equal".

I would like to do a side by side comparison at some point to calibrate my perceptions.

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2014, 08:27:45 AM »
I used to measure FWH as a 20 minute addition too, but I perceive it as higher than that, too. I've made a lot of beers with just FWH and finishing hops that were plenty bitter for my taste. I calculate it as a 60 minute.
Jon H.