Author Topic: % of IBUs from bittering addition?  (Read 1202 times)

Offline goschman

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% of IBUs from bittering addition?
« on: February 13, 2014, 09:11:42 AM »
Does anyone follow a certain guideline for what % of IBUs are acheived from the bittering addition when designing pale ales/IPAs? I normally go for 50% for some reason but was curious about others thoughts. I realize that there are numerous variables at play here regarding hop type, overall goals, etc.

For my current pale ale, my later additions are at 20 & 5 minutes with dry hop. I am cosidering pushing the additions to 10 & 0 min while increasing the bittering addtion to make up for lost IBUs. Maybe I am way off thinking anyone goes for a certain standard in this way.
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Offline denny

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 09:15:02 AM »
Does anyone follow a certain guideline for what % of IBUs are acheived from the bittering addition when designing pale ales/IPAs? I normally go for 50% for some reason but was curious about others thoughts. I realize that there are numerous variables at play here regarding hop type, overall goals, etc.

For my current pale ale, my later additions are at 20 & 5 minutes with dry hop. I am cosidering pushing the additions to 10 & 0 min while increasing the bittering addtion to make up for lost IBUs. Maybe I am way off thinking anyone goes for a certain standard in this way.

I don't think of it that way, but I'd guess 80+ % come the bittering addition.  I prefer to calculate the FWH and late additions first, basing them on how much flavor and aroma I want.  Then I add enough bittering hops to get to my target IBU.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 09:25:19 AM »
I agree with Denny. I'm setting up a hopping schedule to produce the hop flavor and aroma (or lack of it) that I want in a beer and then altering the bittering contribution by its size or boil duration to produce the bittering level I want. Of course those flavor and aroma additions may be influencing the bittering too.

With that said, do any brewers have rules of thumb they could share with respect to the size and timing of their flavor and aroma additions in typical batches?   
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Offline denny

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 09:28:24 AM »
With that said, do any brewers have rules of thumb they could share with respect to the size and timing of their flavor and aroma additions in typical batches?

My standard hop schedule it FWH (1-2 oz.), 60, and flameout (1-4 oz.).  Of course that can vary. 
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Offline goschman

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »
Thanks! I am really looking to simplify my additions so I do like the idea of FWH, 60, and flameout. I have enjoyed my current pale ale but there is a lot going on...
On Tap:                       
American Wheat / Blonde / Walter Wit / GoschaLagerBier / American Strong Ale
              
Fermenting: nothing :(
Up Next: XPA #2:Azacca-El Dorado, Baltic Porter, Saison

Offline blatz

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 03:17:27 PM »
With that said, do any brewers have rules of thumb they could share with respect to the size and timing of their flavor and aroma additions in typical batches?

I do the same thing.

I brew 12gal batches - for IPA, typically 6oz flameout/whirlpool, 4-6oz at 10 min, and then back into whatever my IBU goal is by adding hops at 60min.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 05:02:00 PM »
For an APA with new hops this might work. Some guy named Vinnie used this for new hops.
http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2012/1616-16%20New%20Hop%20Varieties%20-Stan%20Hieronymus.pdf
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Offline erockrph

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 08:43:10 PM »
I've been moving away from this a bit lately as I try to cram more and more hop flavor into my hoppy beers, but for a while my rule of thumb had been:

APA's: ~20 IBU from FWH, no 60-minute addition, remainder in late additions
IPA's: 1/3 IBU from FWH, 1/3 from Chinook, Columbus or Nugget at 60 minutes, 1/3 from late additions.

Now I've started to move to:

APA's: ~40 IBU from FWH, 1-1.5 oz/gallon flameout hops added after wort hits ~185F, 30-minute hop stand
IPA's: ~30 IBU's from Columbus/Chinook/Nugget @60 min if I want more snap to my bitterness, otherwise no 60-minute addition, 3-4 oz/gallon at flameout as soon as all boiling activity stops, 90-minute hop stand
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 09:03:37 PM »
I've been moving away from this a bit lately as I try to cram more and more hop flavor into my hoppy beers, but for a while my rule of thumb had been:

APA's: ~20 IBU from FWH, no 60-minute addition, remainder in late additions
IPA's: 1/3 IBU from FWH, 1/3 from Chinook, Columbus or Nugget at 60 minutes, 1/3 from late additions.

Now I've started to move to:

APA's: ~40 IBU from FWH, 1-1.5 oz/gallon flameout hops added after wort hits ~185F, 30-minute hop stand
IPA's: ~30 IBU's from Columbus/Chinook/Nugget @60 min if I want more snap to my bitterness, otherwise no 60-minute addition, 3-4 oz/gallon at flameout as soon as all boiling activity stops, 90-minute hop stand

you've been inspiring me lately, although not quite to your heights. I've been enjoying ~40-50 IBU FWH Cascade and simcoe and another 30 at flameout with a 45ish minute hop stand. Can't quite bring myself to go with 1.5 oz per gallon but one of these days!
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 09:28:55 PM »
With that said, do any brewers have rules of thumb they could share with respect to the size and timing of their flavor and aroma additions in typical batches?

My standard hop schedule it FWH (1-2 oz.), 60, and flameout (1-4 oz.).  Of course that can vary.
Funny, but I was listening to an old Brew Strong last night while brewing, and Jamil said that Denny Conn did an experiment that proves that FWH is a total waste of time. So, apparently you just like wasting your time Denny.

(I actually think JZ meant to say mash hopping not FWH. But it shows how even our brewing gods are not perfect. Nothing is true until you try it yourself)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 06:31:32 AM »
I've been moving away from this a bit lately as I try to cram more and more hop flavor into my hoppy beers, but for a while my rule of thumb had been:

APA's: ~20 IBU from FWH, no 60-minute addition, remainder in late additions
IPA's: 1/3 IBU from FWH, 1/3 from Chinook, Columbus or Nugget at 60 minutes, 1/3 from late additions.

Now I've started to move to:

APA's: ~40 IBU from FWH, 1-1.5 oz/gallon flameout hops added after wort hits ~185F, 30-minute hop stand
IPA's: ~30 IBU's from Columbus/Chinook/Nugget @60 min if I want more snap to my bitterness, otherwise no 60-minute addition, 3-4 oz/gallon at flameout as soon as all boiling activity stops, 90-minute hop stand

I don't stand quite as long on IPAs - I go 45 minutes for IPA, 20 -30 minutes for APA, but otherwise I hop pretty similarly.  I've also been doing more hop bursted IPAs lately (all hops added in the last 15 minutes) - actually I'm starting to prefer them . I have one on tap now that I added 3 oz of hops each @ 15, 10, 5, and flameout. 45 minute hopstand, then 6 oz of dry hops. It's fantastic - pretty much APA bitterness with maltiness up front, followed by gigantic hop flavor and aroma. Really,really drinkable.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 06:36:41 AM »
In the German Pilsners I brew, I have found I like about 50% of the IBUs early in the boil and the other 50% between 30 and 10 minutes. They tend to like the hops boiled for 10 minutes to give that refined hoppiness that is popular over there.
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Offline denny

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 10:12:16 AM »
Funny, but I was listening to an old Brew Strong last night while brewing, and Jamil said that Denny Conn did an experiment that proves that FWH is a total waste of time. So, apparently you just like wasting your time Denny.

(I actually think JZ meant to say mash hopping not FWH. But it shows how even our brewing gods are not perfect. Nothing is true until you try it yourself)

No, he meant FWH.  The results of the experiment were inconclusive, but JZ and I each interpreted them differently.  which is why I encourage people to experiment and find out for themselves.  Wow, if only there was a book about that kind of stuff.....:)
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Offline erockrph

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2014, 11:48:14 AM »
Funny, but I was listening to an old Brew Strong last night while brewing, and Jamil said that Denny Conn did an experiment that proves that FWH is a total waste of time. So, apparently you just like wasting your time Denny.

(I actually think JZ meant to say mash hopping not FWH. But it shows how even our brewing gods are not perfect. Nothing is true until you try it yourself)

No, he meant FWH.  The results of the experiment were inconclusive, but JZ and I each interpreted them differently.  which is why I encourage people to experiment and find out for themselves.  Wow, if only there was a book about that kind of stuff.....:)

Hmmm... one or two of the published authors from the forums someone should write one :)
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Offline denny

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Re: % of IBUs from bittering addition?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 11:58:49 AM »
Funny, but I was listening to an old Brew Strong last night while brewing, and Jamil said that Denny Conn did an experiment that proves that FWH is a total waste of time. So, apparently you just like wasting your time Denny.

(I actually think JZ meant to say mash hopping not FWH. But it shows how even our brewing gods are not perfect. Nothing is true until you try it yourself)

No, he meant FWH.  The results of the experiment were inconclusive, but JZ and I each interpreted them differently.  which is why I encourage people to experiment and find out for themselves.  Wow, if only there was a book about that kind of stuff.....:)

Hmmm... one or two of the published authors from the forums someone should write one :)

That's a damn good idea!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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