[rodmanxxx]

This wknd I will be brewing an american lager, OG = 1.056 using Bavarian Lager Wyeast 2206. A few ?s>
- I don't have the setup so will be using a large bucket filled with water to ferment in the garage. Temps in NM for the next 10 days are supposed to average 63 for high & 39 for low. So hopefully I can keep the ferment in the low 50s or high 40s, which is in line for this yeast. Do you think I will get a good temp control with the pail in a bucket of water like that provided ambient temp doesn't change?
- I plan on doing a decoction mash (first time also), doing BIAB. Any tips on this? Starting @ 10.75 lbs grain @ 1.5 quart per lb. @ 105 degree for 30 minutes. Then decot 3.4 qts and raise to 122 for 30 mins. Then decot 8 qts and raise to 155 for 30 mins. Then rinse grains @ 168. I can use my boil kettle or a 5 gallon cooler bucket for the mash.
- According to Beersmith I need 414 billion yeast cells. A 2.5 litre starter with stir plate will produce 450 billion cells. I only have a 2 litre flask. What would be the best way to create my starter? And I believe I need the starter to be at about 50 degrees, same as wort, any tips on the yeast starter would be appreciated.
Thanks!

[ynotbrusum]

You are jumping into a kinda tough area for a newer brewer, but it will work. 

Use the water tub to keep temp swings to a minimum and consider adding frozen water bottles to keep the temp as low as possible (around 50f for a week, if possible).

Decoction involves removing a portion of the mash and boiling it - while stirring constantly.  If you have a separate burner and pot, give it a go!

As to yeast starter, you can ramp up a liter to 2 liters and then decant and do another 2 liters...that should get you in the range needed for a robust lager starter for a five gallon batch.  If you decant at the one liter stage, you will get even more cells.

Good luck and have fun!  There are many different posts and topics that are able to address each of these issues in depth.

[erockrph]

No need to keep your starter in the 50's, room temp will be just fine. Since you're just worried about growing yeast and not brewing beer the warmer temps won't be an issue.

[ynotbrusum]

No need to keep your starter in the 50's, room temp will be just fine. Since you're just worried about growing yeast and not brewing beer the warmer temps won't be an issue.

Missed that issue - it is pretty well understood by most brewers that you are growing yeast, not making beer - because you are going to decant the beer that sits on top of the yeast after crash cooling the starter!

[klickitat jim]

Denny is king of decoction.  I'll just say, kudos for curiosity and ambition! Its 95% love of process.

Temp wise 2206 want 46-58° per Wyeast. My suggestion would be start toward the cool end and do two things... 1. Try not to let it climb above 55° 2. Don't let it go down in temp at any point. After krausen falls I'd let it go, but still not let it drop.

If you haven't bought the yeast yet, maybe try 2112. I use it at 55° for American Lager, Vienna Lager, and Oktoberfest. Others will poopoo that, but I've been quite pleased.

Have fun! Let us know how it worked out.

[rodmanxxx]

Ya, I thought of that on the temp.
I got duel burner stove so should be able to do the mash, just curious regarding doing it BIAB.
Maybe I will do a 1 litre starter on stir plate, then decant and do 2 liter on stir plate.Would that work? I usually do starters at room temp, @ 68, what is best way to drop it to 50ish? Can I just put the starter in fridge and chill to 50 prior to pitching?
Thanks!

[klickitat jim]

No need to chill starter wort prior. Run your starter like an ale. Chill and decant before pitching to your beer wort. Pitch to beer wort once the beer wort is down to about 45-48° and aerated.

[rodmanxxx]

Thanks for replies. So yeast starter temp does not have to be same as wort temp at pitching. I will try to keep ferment temp from dropping, will also consider 2112.

[klickitat jim]

Its probably good to have yeast near the temp that you pitch into. Some say it prevents shock. But the temp that you grow your yeast at can be the same as with ales. Room temp or 66-75 ish

[rodmanxxx]

gotcha klick. PS to erockrph, I did your barley wine/quad recipe @ 3 gallons and hit all the numbers pretty close. Can't wait to try it next year.
Thanks all!

[Jimmy K]

For the starter, you could make it in a gallon jug if you have one.

[bwana]

With well modified malts I'm not sure a rest at 105 degrees is a good thing. A double decotition would probably be better.

[majorvices]

There's just no need to do a step mash or a decoction unless you really feel like punishing yourself for some reason. A single rest at 150 for 45-60 minutes is all you need! I like to raise up to 158 for 10-20 minutes because it helps improve efficiency and gives better body IMO, but for heaven's sake unless you feel like punishing yourself for no reason skip the decoction.

[denny]

Ya, I thought of that on the temp.
I got duel burner stove so should be able to do the mash, just curious regarding doing it BIAB.
Maybe I will do a 1 litre starter on stir plate, then decant and do 2 liter on stir plate.Would that work? I usually do starters at room temp, @ 68, what is best way to drop it to 50ish? Can I just put the starter in fridge and chill to 50 prior to pitching?
Thanks!

How are you going to do a decoction with BIAB?  Are you going to open the bag, take  grain out and boil it, and put it back in the bag?  If you simply boil the wort on the early steps, you'll denature the enzymes and won't get full conversion.

The rest at 105 is entirely unnecessary.  The rest at 122 for 30 min, will likely give you a thin, headless beer.  I really advise you to rethink those.  FWIW, I have an absolutely killer German pi;ls on tap that was made with a single infusion. 90 min. rest at 148.

[denny]

There's just no need to do a step mash or a decoction unless you really feel like punishing yourself for some reason. A single rest at 150 for 45-60 minutes is all you need! I like to raise up to 158 for 10-20 minutes because it helps improve efficiency and gives better body IMO, but for heaven's sake unless you feel like punishing yourself for no reason skip the decoction.

THIS^^^^