Author Topic: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques  (Read 2621 times)

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2014, 10:17:05 AM »
JP's brewing in Stevens point, WI has a blonde stout. It is rather sweet with the flavor of white chocolate. Not quite what I would think of as a stout but interesting none the less.

Thanks for the information.  I looked it up and it sounds similar to what others have tried.  I found this quote from beerpulse.com.  Nonetheless it still sounds tasty!:

"JP’s Casper White Stout is not actually white in color, but it’s not the deep brown, almost black hue characteristic of stouts either: it is an inviting amber color. “Our challenge was to make it as pale as possible,” Hopkins said. “That means we cannot use black roasted malts in the brew, so instead we age it for two weeks with coffee beans and cocoa nibs to create the classic stout roasted character.”
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2014, 10:21:42 AM »
JP's brewing in Stevens point, WI has a blonde stout. It is rather sweet with the flavor of white chocolate. Not quite what I would think of as a stout but interesting none the less.

I'm pretty sure it's crème de cacao.  Nothing like a stout at all, really.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2014, 10:45:18 AM »
Drew put a recipe for a white stout into the book.  After my initial heart attack, I calmed down.  ;)
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Offline johnf

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2014, 12:29:10 PM »
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2014, 01:12:46 PM »
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

I have steeped colored stuff in ethanol and the color is extracted as well. Perhaps if you evaporated the ethanol and passed it through your roasted grains in vapor form but that raises legality issues I think (perhaps not if you start with high percentage ethanol and don't concentrate it but that's above my pay grade)
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Offline johnf

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2014, 01:28:57 PM »
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

I have steeped colored stuff in ethanol and the color is extracted as well. Perhaps if you evaporated the ethanol and passed it through your roasted grains in vapor form but that raises legality issues I think (perhaps not if you start with high percentage ethanol and don't concentrate it but that's above my pay grade)

Right, but extracting in water extracts color is well. If the ethanol extracts less color per aroma/flavor then it would better serve the goal of making a pale stout than a water extraction.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 01:38:44 PM »
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

I have steeped colored stuff in ethanol and the color is extracted as well. Perhaps if you evaporated the ethanol and passed it through your roasted grains in vapor form but that raises legality issues I think (perhaps not if you start with high percentage ethanol and don't concentrate it but that's above my pay grade)

Right, but extracting in water extracts color is well. If the ethanol extracts less color per aroma/flavor then it would better serve the goal of making a pale stout than a water extraction.

gotcha.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2014, 02:00:09 PM »
The brew was a normal BIAB with a cereal mash and 60 minute rest at 150F.

Why the cereal mash? 

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2014, 02:20:35 PM »
The brew was a normal BIAB with a cereal mash and 60 minute rest at 150F.

Why the cereal mash?

For the flaked barley.  It wasn't for any other reason than to keep the recipe and process the same as in BCS so that I could see the difference in how it turns out based on my previous "regular" brews from the same recipe.
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Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2014, 02:23:55 PM »
Quote

Right, but extracting in water extracts color is well. If the ethanol extracts less color per aroma/flavor then it would better serve the goal of making a pale stout than a water extraction.

Could try extracting the grains into ethanol in the ISI Whip to see if you get more flavor from the grains and less color than the roasted color.  I just got another couple pounds of roasted barley to play around with.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 03:01:26 PM by mcdform »
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Offline narcout

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2014, 02:47:12 PM »
The brew was a normal BIAB with a cereal mash and 60 minute rest at 150F.

Why the cereal mash?

For the flaked barley.  It wasn't for any other reason than to keep the recipe and process the same as in BCS so that I could see the difference in how it turns out based on my previous "regular" brews from the same recipe.

Got it.  I'm pretty sure flaked barley is pre-gelatinized and doesn't require a cereal mash.

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2014, 03:34:30 PM »
Drew put a recipe for a white stout into the book.  After my initial heart attack, I calmed down.  ;)

Thanks Denny, Drew used cocoa nibs and coffee without dark roasted grains as well.  If this works we could try making a pale Vanilla Bourbon Porter. ;)  Hopefully your heart could handle that one.
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Offline dcb

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2014, 08:30:20 PM »
1.  I really want to taste this
2. "Pale stout" still sounds like an oxymoron to me

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2014, 06:49:53 PM »
1.  I really want to taste this
2. "Pale stout" still sounds like an oxymoron to me

1.  i'm going to brew a 5 gallon batch and bring it to the Southern California Homebrewer's Festival (you might be a little far away for that one).  Looks like the fest is cancelled this year.  I'll bring it to a meeting for our local homebrew club.

2.  How about Naked stout?

Edited since festival was cancelled.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 07:56:17 PM by mcdform »
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Offline dcb

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2014, 07:12:58 PM »
1.  i'm going to brew a 5 gallon batch and bring it to the Southern California Homebrewer's Festival (you might be a little far away for that one).

Regretfully, it is a little too far.  Although sometimes I suprise myself at how far out of the way I'll go for a good beer.

2.  How about Naked stout?

I like it!  Brings to mind some great label ideas.