[HoosierBrew]

I don't use 5.2 anymore, but adding that product is not causing your astringency problems - so removing it will not fix it - so if you want to leave it in for now, no problem. You might loose some heat between the kettle and grain, but I'm sure it's not 40 degrees worth (212F to 170F). Heat to maybe 175F and check the temperature at the surface during the sparge. If it's high or low you can adjust next time, but try to keep it at or under 170F.

No, I agree the product doesn't directly cause the astringency. But if he took at face value that the 5.2 was keeping his pH in the good range, then it could be indirectly giving him issues, as opposed to RO and water software.

[Jimmy K]

I don't use 5.2 anymore, but adding that product is not causing your astringency problems - so removing it will not fix it - so if you want to leave it in for now, no problem. You might loose some heat between the kettle and grain, but I'm sure it's not 40 degrees worth (212F to 170F). Heat to maybe 175F and check the temperature at the surface during the sparge. If it's high or low you can adjust next time, but try to keep it at or under 170F.

No, I agree the product doesn't directly cause the astringency. But if he took at face value that the 5.2 was keeping his pH in the good range, then it could be indirectly giving him issues, as opposed to RO and water software.

Yes, I'm only advocating 'easiest step first'.

[HoosierBrew]

I don't use 5.2 anymore, but adding that product is not causing your astringency problems - so removing it will not fix it - so if you want to leave it in for now, no problem. You might loose some heat between the kettle and grain, but I'm sure it's not 40 degrees worth (212F to 170F). Heat to maybe 175F and check the temperature at the surface during the sparge. If it's high or low you can adjust next time, but try to keep it at or under 170F.

No, I agree the product doesn't directly cause the astringency. But if he took at face value that the 5.2 was keeping his pH in the good range, then it could be indirectly giving him issues, as opposed to RO and water software.

Yes, I'm only advocating 'easiest step first'.

Cool. Agreed.

[epic1856]

When is the last time you have calibrated your thermometer? You might be thinking you are under 170 and may not be.

[denny]

When is the last time you have calibrated your thermometer? You might be thinking you are under 170 and may not be.

In my experience that doesn't matter of the pH is OK.  I sparge with 185-190F water every time and don't get astringency.

[denny]

Don't forget the third wheel in the astringency train...oversparging. Sure, make sure the alkalinity of your sparging water is reasonably low and avoid taking the sparging water temp above 170F. But the thing that tripped me up a year ago while I was breaking in my new brewing system, was oversparging. I was ending runoff at 2 Brix and had a faint tannin note. I now aim to end runoff at about 3 Brix. Problem solved.

But the gravity of the sparge runoff is just an indicator of pH isn't it?

[morticaixavier]

When is the last time you have calibrated your thermometer? You might be thinking you are under 170 and may not be.

In my experience that doesn't matter of the pH is OK.  I sparge with 185-190F water every time and don't get astringency.

this is my point AND since pH can cause other issues while a high sparge temp doesn't why worry about the sparge temp? seems like you'd be treating one symptom of an issue while ignoring the actual issue and all the other symptoms that could come along with it.

[twopumpsandimsorry]

I do trust my thermometer. I should calibrate it although i dont think it's off by much. It's a relatively new issue for me, I've never tested my ph before but when i was using cooler water to sparge astringency did not seem to be an issue. I did make a stout and a brown ale in November that had some minor astringency initially but got better after a few weeks. It was a milk stout and a spiced brown ale with molasses, guessing the additional sugars mellowed the astringency. My reason for posting is that i've been told a higher sparge temp should not be an issue and Ive also been told the opposite. I know several brewers around me that don't make changes to the city water ph and don't have an issue.

[morticaixavier]

I do trust my thermometer. I should calibrate it although i dont think it's off by much. It's a relatively new issue for me, I've never tested my ph before but when i was using cooler water to sparge astringency did not seem to be an issue. I did make a stout and a brown ale in November that had some minor astringency initially but got better after a few weeks. It was a milk stout and a spiced brown ale with molasses, guessing the additional sugars mellowed the astringency. My reason for posting is that i've been told a higher sparge temp should not be an issue and Ive also been told the opposite. I know several brewers around me that don't make changes to the city water ph and don't have an issue.

right, because it's both (or all three per martin) of the things working together. take any one out of equation and the astringency issue goes away.

[twopumpsandimsorry]

Now i get it. Thanks

[morticaixavier]

Now i get it. Thanks

Sorry if I got a little intense. didn't mean to.