Author Topic: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home  (Read 1168 times)

Offline jmwrightmegg

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Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« on: February 28, 2014, 08:48:27 PM »
There are so many great IPA's available now, I am in heaven.  Although I have made some very good IPA's at home over the years, some of the DIPA's out there are blowing me away.  I'm not really sure how the pros are getting their smooth, clean, enveloping hop aromas and flavors.  I know dry hopping and using some of the new breeds of hops like Simcoe and Citra must account for some of the high quality, but I feel that maybe there is some technique or trick that I don't know.  For instance, for those in the distribution area of Knee Deep out of the California Sierra Foothills/Sacramento area, if you have tasted this amazing "Triple IPA" that I see many are comparing to PTY, I am curious about just how they achieve the insane levels of hop utilization. I have homebrewed and dry hopped many times, and I have used Citra and Simcoe, but I can’t get anywhere near that smooth, beautiful hop aroma and flavor. Does anyone know what tricks the pros are using these days for some of the top DIPA’s?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 09:22:54 PM »
One of my honest opinions is that it's the palate of the consumer. If you've never had anything hoppy before, then an ESB is over the top. But if you really like IPA and drink a lot of them, it may seem like they are getting smoother. Just my view point...

There are tricks to smoothing out bitterness though. I like first wort hopping for that. Another trick is not letting your high test beers get hot and solventy.

Offline Steve in TX

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 09:33:38 PM »
Email knee deep and ask if they will share the recipe. I've met the brewer a few times at various events in Sac and he always seemed cool.

Offline jmwrightmegg

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 09:51:12 PM »
Email knee deep and ask if they will share the recipe. I've met the brewer a few times at various events in Sac and he always seemed cool.

I was just having this conversation with another pro brewer, and he said he had the Simtra last year at a beer festival and asked Knee Deep's brewer about the recipe, and they wouldn't share.   However, the question I have applies to PTY, Firestone Double Jack, Sculpin, and many more DIPA's, not just Simtra.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 11:41:02 PM »
Most pro brewers use whirlpool additions for a good portion of their late hops. This really amps up the flavor and aroma contributions of the hops, and the bitterness seems to be a lot smoother (similar to First Wort Hopping to my palate).

As a homebrewer, if you don't have a whirlpool you can still approximate this by using a hop stand (adding your flameout hops, then letting them steep hot for 30-90 minutes). IME, that's the only way to come close to (or even exceed) that saturated hop flavor you find in commercial IPA's.

That, and use a whole lot of hops. I'm using just over a pound of hops in a 3-gallon batch of IPA right now, and I might push that even further the next time I brew my "house" IPA recipe.
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Offline fmader

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 06:23:16 AM »
Ummm... More hops? ;D How much hops are you using? IMO if you're not using a pound in a 5 gallon batch, you're not using enough. I personally don't like the heavy booze taste and thickness if a DIPA, so I brew all mine so that the land 6-7% ABV but still use the large amount of hops. I usually got 2-3 oz for FWH, 2-3 oz at 60 min, maybe an oz or two at 10, at least an oz/gal at 0 minutes with a 30-45 minute stand, and at least oz/gal dry hop.

My advice to you is start trying to push the envelope with hops. Once you think that you've got enough, add a couple more ounces here and there. You'll like the results... Maybe the next time, you'll want to go bigger! ;D
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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 06:37:31 AM »
+1 to hop stands and lots of dry hops.  For DIPA dry hopping, I use two rounds of 5 or 6 oz @ a week each. Be sure to purge your secondary and keg with CO2 before racking - oxidation is obviously not good for any beer, but hop aromas get diminished substantially by oxidation.
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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 08:11:54 AM »
Obligatory water profile comment.
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Offline jmwrightmegg

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 08:26:56 AM »
Most pro brewers use whirlpool additions for a good portion of their late hops. This really amps up the flavor and aroma contributions of the hops, and the bitterness seems to be a lot smoother (similar to First Wort Hopping to my palate).

As a homebrewer, if you don't have a whirlpool you can still approximate this by using a hop stand (adding your flameout hops, then letting them steep hot for 30-90 minutes). IME, that's the only way to come close to (or even exceed) that saturated hop flavor you find in commercial IPA's.

That, and use a whole lot of hops. I'm using just over a pound of hops in a 3-gallon batch of IPA right now, and I might push that even further the next time I brew my "house" IPA recipe.

I didn't know about doing a hop stand.  However, doesn't that negate some of the desired effects of late hop additions, them being the aroma hops that are usually added during the last 1-5 minutes of the boil?  Wouldn't leaving those "aroma" hops in the almost boiling wort for 45 minutes essentially "boil away" the aroma oils?  Or, are those aroma contributions dwarfed by the massive dry hopping you are doing anyway?

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 09:02:27 AM »
Most pro brewers use whirlpool additions for a good portion of their late hops. This really amps up the flavor and aroma contributions of the hops, and the bitterness seems to be a lot smoother (similar to First Wort Hopping to my palate).

As a homebrewer, if you don't have a whirlpool you can still approximate this by using a hop stand (adding your flameout hops, then letting them steep hot for 30-90 minutes). IME, that's the only way to come close to (or even exceed) that saturated hop flavor you find in commercial IPA's.

That, and use a whole lot of hops. I'm using just over a pound of hops in a 3-gallon batch of IPA right now, and I might push that even further the next time I brew my "house" IPA recipe.

I didn't know about doing a hop stand.  However, doesn't that negate some of the desired effects of late hop additions, them being the aroma hops that are usually added during the last 1-5 minutes of the boil?  Wouldn't leaving those "aroma" hops in the almost boiling wort for 45 minutes essentially "boil away" the aroma oils?  Or, are those aroma contributions dwarfed by the massive dry hopping you are doing anyway?

Add the hops after flame out. The stand gives some aroma, but very good flavor development. You can add some of the hops at 170F or even 120F if you want more aroma. Dry hopping gives the big aroma in most of these beers.

Another trick is to do dry hopping several times. Sometimes the hops are left for 7 days, then add more for 3 days. PtY is said to have something like 4 dry hop additions.

There are some shows on the Brewing Network that cover making IPAs. The one with Firestone Walkers Matt Brynildson was very good.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 09:06:13 AM by hopfenundmalz »
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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 09:05:45 AM »
Forget your 1-5 minute hops.... Push that all out to 0 minute (flameout).
Frank

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2014, 09:11:37 AM »
Also. drop as much yeast as you can before you dry hop. While the yeast drops out it graps hop resins and pulls them down as well, taking away much of your aroma and flavor. People's opinions seem to differ between dry hopping at fermentation temp or cold - I prefer dry hoping in the mid to upper 60s.
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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2014, 11:14:25 AM »
Most pro brewers use whirlpool additions for a good portion of their late hops. This really amps up the flavor and aroma contributions of the hops, and the bitterness seems to be a lot smoother (similar to First Wort Hopping to my palate).

As a homebrewer, if you don't have a whirlpool you can still approximate this by using a hop stand (adding your flameout hops, then letting them steep hot for 30-90 minutes). IME, that's the only way to come close to (or even exceed) that saturated hop flavor you find in commercial IPA's.

That, and use a whole lot of hops. I'm using just over a pound of hops in a 3-gallon batch of IPA right now, and I might push that even further the next time I brew my "house" IPA recipe.

I didn't know about doing a hop stand.  However, doesn't that negate some of the desired effects of late hop additions, them being the aroma hops that are usually added during the last 1-5 minutes of the boil?  Wouldn't leaving those "aroma" hops in the almost boiling wort for 45 minutes essentially "boil away" the aroma oils?  Or, are those aroma contributions dwarfed by the massive dry hopping you are doing anyway?

Add the hops after flame out. The stand gives some aroma, but very good flavor development. You can add some of the hops at 170F or even 120F if you want more aroma. Dry hopping gives the big aroma in most of these beers.

Another trick is to do dry hopping several times. Sometimes the hops are left for 7 days, then add more for 3 days. PtY is said to have something like 4 dry hop additions.

There are some shows on the Brewing Network that cover making IPAs. The one with Firestone Walkers Matt Brynildson was very good.

Great advice.  +1 to major's point of waiting to dry hop until the yeast has dropped, leaving clear beer. I've been waiting 3 weeks in primary, racking the clear beer to secondary and then dry hopping. It makes a difference.

Jon H.

Offline jmwrightmegg

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 11:43:03 AM »
OK, so in reading all of your responses, it looks like to take my IPA's to the next level, I need to use at least one pound of hops per 5 gal. batch, utilize a hop stand of at least 1 oz. per gallon, make sure to rack to secondary before dry hopping, and maybe dry hop more than once.  That gives me a good direction, thanks everyone.

Offline fmader

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Re: Duplicating the best DIPA's at home
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 12:05:27 PM »
Sounds like a plan. I think that you will find that you will prefer your IPAs to commercial brews once you kick the hops up. You won't drink a fresher IPA than yours. Another little tidbit that I was told to me from brewers that are more knowledgable than I is to add about a teaspoon of gypsum to the boil for hoppy beers.
Frank