Author Topic: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques  (Read 2477 times)

Offline mcdform

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Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« on: March 01, 2014, 10:39:32 PM »
I recently set out to brew a pale stout with traditional stout ingredients. I failed a couple of times in accomplishing the "pale" portion of the stout but finally seem to have made progress using nitrogen infusion and iced gelatin filtration (sounds so nerdy).

I used JZ's Dry Stout recipe from BCS but treated the black roasted barley in the following way (I brew 1 gallon BIAB):

- Add 2 oz milled black roasted barley into ISI whip (whip cream machine) and fill with room temp water to .5 liter. Charge with one nitrogen canister and empty after 1 minute into Chemex coffee maker with paper coffee filter. Heat liquid in microwave until hot then mix into prepped gelatin (.5% by weight of liquid).

The results were very interesting and the resulting liquid could be described as: Dry astringency and roast both present. More chocolaty than astringent. Much lighter than normal steeped grains.

After tasting the mixture I began phase II which was the iced gelatin filtration process. The liquid was frozen solid then thawed on a cheesecloth lined sieve over a bowl in the refrigerator. The whole process took about 4.5 days from infusion to thaw. It was so much fun that I did it twice to get a nice light colored liquid!

After completing a 2nd round of gelatin filtration the liquid looked like the photo below:



Now that I had a nice looking black roasted barley extract it was time to brew. The brew was a normal BIAB with a cereal mash and 60 minute rest at 150F. The black roasted barley was added with 1 minute left in the boil to minimize added color. Once cooled the resulting beer's appearance blew my mind. Almost pale ale in color and nothing like a stout. I didn't get a good taste so I'm flying blind but hopefully it will have some roast character and will provide a starting point for further exploration. I'm pretty excited! Here's a pic of the fermentation vessel with the pale stout inside:



I believe that using the quick infusion with the ISI whip allowed me to get the flavor from the grains without extracting color. I probably should have used unmilled grain (I'm going to try it soon) to see if the roast character could come out without milling. For more info on my process check out my signature. For more info on quick infusions check out Dave Arnold's post and for more info on my inspiration for iced gelatin filtration check out the jimseven blog post from 2007.
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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 05:00:48 AM »
Wow! What a cool unique process. Let us know how it tastes when it's finished.

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Offline erockrph

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 08:20:24 AM »
This is awesome stuff! I've been kicking around an idea of brewing a pair of coffee stouts - one using light roasted barley, pale chocolate malt and whole blonde roast coffee beans; and the other with dark roast barley and chocolate malt, and ground espresso beans. But this takes it to a whole new level. Please keep us posted with updates.
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Offline gmwren

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 12:48:54 PM »
Pale stouts! Next thing they will think of is black IPAs!

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 01:12:14 PM »
Pale stouts! Next thing they will think of is black IPAs!

I agree it's totally useless but sort of fun.  If it's roasty enough the sensation of drinking something so light and roasty will be entertaining for abit.

Besides, maybe it will help people who are concerned with dark beers staining their teeth. :)
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Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 01:21:33 PM »
Noble ale works makes  a blonde coffee stout called naughty sauce

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Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 01:41:48 PM »
Noble ale works makes  a blonde coffee stout called naughty sauce

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It's a tasty beer but I don't believe they are making it with a traditional stout recipe.  I heard they use a little bit of roasted grain and try to get roasted flavors from the coffee.  A few other breweries have done it as well.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 01:57:19 PM »
Are there any commercial examples of this in bottled form yet?  I'm curious but skeptical. If it's a good beer I'm game to try it. But being a huge stout fan, gotta say the name sounds sounds like BS.
Jon H.

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 02:27:59 PM »
To be honest I have no clue if there are any bottled versions available.  I know that Naughty Sauce is draft only (last I checked) but again they are not stout recipes from what my research has shown.

This recipe for this was 63% MO, 25% Flaked Barley and 12% Black Roasted Barley.  If anyone is around LA when it's done I'm willing to try and get them a taste if it resembles a stout in flavor.

The name, I wasn't sure what to call mine.  Didn't want to say "white" because that usually means wheat so pale seemed to fit.

I can't imagine a commercial brewery trying this because of the labor and time involved but commercial kitchens sometimes use this method for consommes.  You could do a five gallon batch with a bit more work on the first part but the gelatin filtration would be easy in big pans with holes in the bottom.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 02:40:49 PM »
To be honest I have no clue if there are any bottled versions available.  I know that Naughty Sauce is draft only (last I checked) but again they are not stout recipes from what my research has shown.

This recipe for this was 63% MO, 25% Flaked Barley and 12% Black Roasted Barley.  If anyone is around LA when it's done I'm willing to try and get them a taste if it resembles a stout in flavor.

The name, I wasn't sure what to call mine.  Didn't want to say "white" because that usually means wheat so pale seemed to fit.

I can't imagine a commercial brewery trying this because of the labor and time involved but commercial kitchens sometimes use this method for consommes.  You could do a five gallon batch with a bit more work on the first part but the gelatin filtration would be easy in big pans with holes in the bottom.

Didn't mean to single you out.  Sorry. I've been hearing the term 'white stout' thrown around lately. Just trying to get my head around it.    :)
Jon H.

Offline mcdform

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2014, 03:02:23 PM »
Thanks man.  If this is successful and I brew a bigger batch I'll send you one to try! :)
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 03:37:33 PM »
I'm all for trying it, to see if it's possible to get that kind of flavor in a paler beer (though I'm skeptical) . I remember a couple years ago the idea of Black IPA was considered heresy or a joke too !
Jon H.

Offline chezteth

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2014, 09:38:54 PM »
JP's brewing in Stevens point, WI has a blonde stout. It is rather sweet with the flavor of white chocolate. Not quite what I would think of as a stout but interesting none the less.

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Offline dkfick

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2014, 09:57:01 PM »
Very cool project.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Pale Stout (with roasted grains) - New Techniques
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 08:13:04 AM »
Very interesting.
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