Author Topic: Late Water Adjustment  (Read 1975 times)

Offline BrodyR

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Late Water Adjustment
« on: March 05, 2014, 11:54:48 AM »
Today I am brewing a pale ale. Prior to mashing in I measured out my brewing salts (Gypsum, Chalk, & Calcium Chloride) but forgot to throw them in until I was 30 minutes into the mash!

My tap water is:
Ca: 43
Mg: 13
Na: 34
s04: 44
Cl: 92
HC03: 84

My target was:
Ca: 124
Mg: 13
Na: 34
s04: 122
Cl: 93
HC03: 156

I took a pH reading after adding the salts and was ~5.4-5.5.

Any thoughts on how/if the late addition of the salts will affect the brew?

Thanks

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 12:13:57 PM »
Other than calcium and magnesium, the ions are for flavor and can be added in the kettle. Ca and Mg are needed in the mash, but you have about the required level in your base water. Short story - doubt you'll notice a difference.

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 12:14:58 PM »
The good thing is that your chalk addition was probably ineffective, since it wouldn't have dissolved in the mash. But that brings up the question of why you were targeting such a high bicarbonate content? I can't think of any mash that would need that bicarbonate content in the water.

The pH reading is reassuring, assuming that it was obtained from a room-temperature wort sample using a freshly-calibrated pH meter. In that case, you probably don't have much to worry about.
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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 12:40:32 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 12:41:42 PM »
Oh and the pH sample was not room temp but the device claims to auto temp correct. It is recently calibrated but I wouldn't swear by it's accuracy.

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 12:57:31 PM »
Oh and the pH sample was not room temp but the device claims to auto temp correct. It is recently calibrated but I wouldn't swear by it's accuracy.
PH samples are evaluated at room temperature. Autocorrection compensates for the meters error, not changes in the sample with temperature. The probe will last much longer if you measure at cool temps.

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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 01:07:39 PM »
Oh and the pH sample was not room temp but the device claims to auto temp correct. It is recently calibrated but I wouldn't swear by it's accuracy.
PH samples are evaluated at room temperature. Autocorrection compensates for the meters error, not changes in the sample with temperature. The probe will last much longer if you measure at cool temps.

Ah! I definitely misunderstood the ATC function then.. that would put it closer to 5.2 then

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 01:31:23 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Try Bru'nwater.  I get much more accurate results with it than others.
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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 01:35:59 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Try Bru'nwater.  I get much more accurate results with it than others.

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 02:10:45 PM »
But that brings up the question of why you were targeting such a high bicarbonate content? I can't think of any mash that would need that bicarbonate content in the water.

Really? That's about what I shoot for to get the mash pH up to 5.5ish for a porter or stout. My tap water RA is only 10-30 depending on the season and without the salt addition it would come in around 5.2 pH.
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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 02:39:04 PM »
+1 (reminder to self, get the paid version ASAP)

yeah, I need to do this too. I hear the paid version is a 100ppm better.

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 02:49:56 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Try Bru'nwater.  I get much more accurate results with it than others.

+10.  Great software.
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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 02:52:18 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Try Bru'nwater.  I get much more accurate results with it than others.

+1 (reminder to self, get the paid version ASAP)

Where does one get that?

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 03:12:01 PM »
Thanks guys, the bicarbonate was calculated using John Palmer's spreadsheets to hit the desired SRM. I'm new to water treatment. I just read the book Water: A comprehensive guide for brewers and some of Palmer's other stuff within the month as an introduction so I admit I may well be making some rookie mistakes. I basically use beer smith and Palmer's spreadsheet/range guidelines as my guide.

Try Bru'nwater.  I get much more accurate results with it than others.

+1 (reminder to self, get the paid version ASAP)

Where does one get that?

You follow the link to Bru'nWater and can either download the free version or agree to make a contribution. Once you make a contribution, Martin will email you the supporter's version, which has improved features. Whatever amount you contribute, I assure you it's a steal. It'll make your beer better.
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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Late Water Adjustment
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 03:52:43 PM »
Oh and the pH sample was not room temp but the device claims to auto temp correct. It is recently calibrated but I wouldn't swear by it's accuracy.
PH samples are evaluated at room temperature. Autocorrection compensates for the meters error, not changes in the sample with temperature. The probe will last much longer if you measure at cool temps.

Ah! I definitely misunderstood the ATC function then.. that would put it closer to 5.2 then


Actually maybe it was right, just saw this sentence on the calculator:
"This calculator attempts to correct the reading of a pH meter that does not internally account for temperature. If your pH meter features automatic temperature compensation (ATC) or the ability to "dial-in" temperature, it is already internally performing this correction."

Then again 152 may be too high for it to work effectively.