[ynotbrusum]

Just watch out for DMS and diacetyl with this style of beer!  As to Hops - Saaz is the preferred hop near as I can tell

[Pinski]

Yeah, I'm not doing a completely by-the-books BoPils with the Motueka, but that's fine. I can definitely pick up the Saaz-lineage with Motueka, but there is a lime zest/lemongrass flavor & aroma that I love. I'm definitely not planning on a "bombs away" hopping approach, but I am planning on a short hop stand and modest dry hop. I think the Motueka will fit the bill nicely here, and the Saazer parentage will help tie things back into the Bohemian theme. (Motueka was actually originally called "Saaz/B") I guess it will be something of a "Motuemian Pilsner" in the end.

And, to get the train back on the rails, I'm pretty sure the original "Saaz" comment was referring to the yeast's lineage, and not the hop's .

No, I get what you're doing here, and I think it sounds pretty good !  I just thought the advice on using a 'historically accurate' yeast was a little out of place given the spirit of this beer.

EDIT - I think WY2124 would be a good one for this one. It's easy to use and clean.

Exactly Hoosier, that's all I was trying to say.  I love where Erockr is going with this beer and Motueka sounds like a great hop. I'm really excited to try them after this discussion because I have half a lb. in the freezer and lemongrass is one of my favorite flavor notes. I simply suggested Pils strains that in my experience have produced very clean fermentations that allow the hops to shine. Any that I listed could also go on to produce a fine Schwarzbier from harvested yeast.

[S. cerevisiae]

There's nothing wrong with a clean, crisp, hop-centric Pils.  It is just not a Bohemian Pilsener.  A large part of the complex malt profile that is found in a well-made Bohemian Pilsener is the result of using a Saaz-type lager strain. 

[Pinski]

Yeah, I'm not doing a completely by-the-books BoPils with the Motueka, but that's fine. I can definitely pick up the Saaz-lineage with Motueka, but there is a lime zest/lemongrass flavor & aroma that I love. I'm definitely not planning on a "bombs away" hopping approach, but I am planning on a short hop stand and modest dry hop. I think the Motueka will fit the bill nicely here, and the Saazer parentage will help tie things back into the Bohemian theme. (Motueka was actually originally called "Saaz/B") I guess it will be something of a "Motuemian Pilsner" in the end.

And, to get the train back on the rails, I'm pretty sure the original "Saaz" comment was referring to the yeast's lineage, and not the hop's .

Wherever you land on your yeast choice Eric, please do report back how this turns out for you. Cheers.

[erockrph]

Might be a little while before I get to brew it, but I just placed my order. Going with Budvar (WY2000). Thanks for the input, everyone!

[HoosierBrew]

I'm sure it'll be good.  Look forward to hearing how it comes out !

[ajk]

With that said, would I use Moteuka instead of Czech Saaz?  Well, if I am going to use an imported hop in a Bohemian-style Pilsener, it would have to be the real thing.  However, seeing that I prefer to use whole cones with a false bottom, I tend to use the U.S. triploids Sterling and Santiam in my Bohemian-style lagers because high-quality whole cone Czech Saaz is difficult to obtain via the home brew trade.  Neither hop is perfect for the job.

I thought Sterling was a diploid.  I tend to think of Mt. Hood, Ultra, Crystal, and, as you mention, Santiam when I think of U.S. triploids with a noble character.

[klickitat jim]

Heh heh..he thaid diploid.

[Thirsty_Monk]

There's nothing wrong with a clean, crisp, hop-centric Pils.  It is just not a Bohemian Pilsener.  A large part of the complex malt profile that is found in a well-made Bohemian Pilsener is the result of using a Saaz-type lager strain.

You sure what are you talking about?
Just checking

[erockrph]

I'm finally drinking this beer, so I thought I'd check in with an update. In the end, my yeast selection didn't have near the impact as my hop selection and schedule. In particular, the dry hops really took this from Pilsner to APA/borderline IPA territory. First impressions from my friends ranged from "What is this, an IPA?" to "this is really fruity".

It's a solid beer, and it was a big hit with my buddies, but personally I'm really missing the gypsum in this. There's fruit and spice on the nose. A sip leads off with some fruit and a nice bitterness, but then it just seems to drop off and finishes with that pasta dough pils malt note. It's like it's not sure if it wants to be an APA or a Bo Pils.

I like the flavors here, but the super-soft water profile just isn't cutting it with the hops. I've tried several takes on the APA-meets-lager thing over the past few years, and still haven't quite gotten there yet. But I think I'm finally getting close to what I'm picturing. Next time I'll use a "hoppy pale" water profile, bump up my whirlpool additions, and cut the dry hops a bit. I'll probably add some Sterling to really emphasize that "noble, but fruity" hop profile as well.

[S. cerevisiae]

I like the flavors here, but the super-soft water profile just isn't cutting it with the hops. I've tried several takes on the APA-meets-lager thing over the past few years, and still haven't quite gotten there yet. But I think I'm finally getting close to what I'm picturing. Next time I'll use a "hoppy pale" water profile, bump up my whirlpool additions, and cut the dry hops a bit. I'll probably add some Sterling to really emphasize that "noble, but fruity" hop profile as well.

Maybe, just maybe, you do not care for Bo Pils?   Soft water is an integral part of that style.  There's nothing wrong with not caring for a style.  I have a friend whose opinion I respect that cannot stand lager.  Most of the beer that I make is not to style.

On the topic of water, two beers were served during the session that John Palmer gave on water chemistry.  One was made with tap water.  The other was made with adjusted water that included the addition of CaSO4.   Both of the beers were good, but there was definite difference in finish.   Many people preferred the beer that was made with tap water.

[erockrph]

I like the flavors here, but the super-soft water profile just isn't cutting it with the hops. I've tried several takes on the APA-meets-lager thing over the past few years, and still haven't quite gotten there yet. But I think I'm finally getting close to what I'm picturing. Next time I'll use a "hoppy pale" water profile, bump up my whirlpool additions, and cut the dry hops a bit. I'll probably add some Sterling to really emphasize that "noble, but fruity" hop profile as well.

Maybe, just maybe, you do not care for Bo Pils?   Soft water is an integral part of that style.  There's nothing wrong with not caring for a style.  I have a friend whose opinion I respect that cannot stand lager.  Most of the beer that I make is not to style.

It's more that the beer seemed rather disjointed. I wasn't shooting for a traditional Bo Pils specifically. It's more that I've been meaning to make a hoppy lager with Motueka, and I've also been meaning to brew a Bo Pils. I tried to mesh the two together, but I find that the "hoppy lager" part of it wants more sulfate, and the Bo Pils part doesn't want the dry hops.

It's still a good beer. I'm just playing the typical homebrewer "how can I make this better" game.

[brewcrew7]

S. cerevisiae, thank you for your enlightening comments about the yeast. The only lager strain I'm using is the Frohberg-type (2124) though lately I think I'm losing some attenuation in successive pitches on different worts.

Eric, what was your hop schedule? I recently brewed a similar beer with about 1oz/5gal FWH MtHood and 1oz FO/no-chill Sterling. Recently got a suggestion to move back the late hops to 30 minutes remaining as the beer was a bit "grassy" to him. I was contemplating on dryhopping but didn't. I think the beer may already be 6-8 weeks old and I think that hop character is already 50% or less of what it was just 2 weeks ago.

[erockrph]

Hop schedule was 1 oz of Motueka at each of my additions: 60 min, a 30 min hop stand at 180f, and a 1oz dry hop/D-rest at 62f for about a week. This was a 3 gallon batch.

I didn't get a chance to lager it that long. After 2 weeks at 35f I served this beer at my 4 year olds bday party. It was pretty much kicked after 2 hours.

As far as the grassiness you're getting, don't rule out the Pils malt as the source of that. I do pick that up on occasion.

[morticaixavier]

Hop schedule was 1 oz of Motueka at each of my additions: 60 min, a 30 min hop stand at 180f, and a 1oz dry hop/D-rest at 62f for about a week. This was a 3 gallon batch.

I didn't get a chance to lager it that long. After 2 weeks at 35f I served this beer at my 4 year olds bday party. It was pretty much kicked after 2 hours.

As far as the grassiness you're getting, don't rule out the Pils malt as the source of that. I do pick that up on occasion.

man! your 4 year old is a party animal huh?