Author Topic: Rye Stout  (Read 1175 times)

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7466
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Rye Stout
« on: March 13, 2014, 08:16:44 AM »
So here is the stout I've up next. My big question is do I have enough roasted grain if I'm cold steeping?

11 gallon batch

6 lb gambrinus pale ale malt
4 lb gambrinus munich malt 10L
4 lb weyermann rye malt

cold steep:
2 lb briess roasted barley
2 lb weyermann carafa 2

Hops will be (I do not remember the amounts):
liberty and sterling FWH
Magnum at 60 to make up the rest of my desired IBU
libtery at flamout

gravity should be somewhere in the vicinity of 1.037 - 1.041

ferment with White Labs Irish ale yeast
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 09:48:24 AM »
My initial thought would be no, but I'm not sure with that low of a gravity. My last stout was a breakfast style stout, and I cold steeped 4 lb chocolate malt, 3 lb roasted barley, and a pound of black patent. The gravity of this beer was 1.080ish and was an 11 gallon batch. The beer is stellar. My rule of thumb that I go by when cold steeping grains is to double the amount that you would mash. I have never used carafa II, so I'm not sure how roasty that tastes. But I would go out on a limb and say that this beer will have a very mild roastedness to it. I'm sensing that you want the rye to shine through some, so you don't want a heavy roastedness though. If it were me, I'd probably add a 1/2 pound to a pound of both dark grains to your bill.

See what anybody else has to say about this....

On a side note... I cold steep for roughly 24 hours in qt/lb of water
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 09:50:49 AM by fmader »
Frank

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7466
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 10:35:08 AM »
My initial thought would be no, but I'm not sure with that low of a gravity. My last stout was a breakfast style stout, and I cold steeped 4 lb chocolate malt, 3 lb roasted barley, and a pound of black patent. The gravity of this beer was 1.080ish and was an 11 gallon batch. The beer is stellar. My rule of thumb that I go by when cold steeping grains is to double the amount that you would mash. I have never used carafa II, so I'm not sure how roasty that tastes. But I would go out on a limb and say that this beer will have a very mild roastedness to it. I'm sensing that you want the rye to shine through some, so you don't want a heavy roastedness though. If it were me, I'd probably add a 1/2 pound to a pound of both dark grains to your bill.

See what anybody else has to say about this....

On a side note... I cold steep for roughly 24 hours in qt/lb of water

I actually looked at that breakfast stout post before making this one. that's part of what got me second guessing myself. I don't want a lot of roast but I want it to taste like a stout. But I'm also open to unexpected wonder so unless someone says it's way way too little I will likely go for it.

Thanks
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 10:44:48 AM »
My initial thought would be no, but I'm not sure with that low of a gravity. My last stout was a breakfast style stout, and I cold steeped 4 lb chocolate malt, 3 lb roasted barley, and a pound of black patent. The gravity of this beer was 1.080ish and was an 11 gallon batch. The beer is stellar. My rule of thumb that I go by when cold steeping grains is to double the amount that you would mash. I have never used carafa II, so I'm not sure how roasty that tastes. But I would go out on a limb and say that this beer will have a very mild roastedness to it. I'm sensing that you want the rye to shine through some, so you don't want a heavy roastedness though. If it were me, I'd probably add a 1/2 pound to a pound of both dark grains to your bill.

See what anybody else has to say about this....

On a side note... I cold steep for roughly 24 hours in qt/lb of water

I actually looked at that breakfast stout post before making this one. that's part of what got me second guessing myself. I don't want a lot of roast but I want it to taste like a stout. But I'm also open to unexpected wonder so unless someone says it's way way too little I will likely go for it.

Thanks

If you do go ahead and use this amount, I will be anxious to see how it turns out. Who knows, I might be using way too much haha. If you had a higher gravity beer, I'd definitely would use more. But being this light, this could be the ticket!

I think you'll like the results of cold steeping. I won't make a stout or a porter any other way.
Frank

Offline dannyjed

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
  • Toledo, OH
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 11:17:44 AM »
The Carafa II is not very roasty. Maybe use 1 lb CarafaII and 1 lb of Chocolate Malt with the Roasted Barley.
Just a thought.
Dan Chisholm

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13845
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 11:18:50 AM »
If you;re going to use chocolate malt, why not chocolate rye?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 11:42:14 AM »
If you;re going to use chocolate malt, why not chocolate rye?

This guy here is always on his toes!  8)
Frank

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7466
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2014, 01:03:58 PM »
If you;re going to use chocolate malt, why not chocolate rye?

because, and only because it's not available organically as far as I can tell.

**EDIT**

okay, it exists but I was not aware of this fact until just now. I have no idea where to find it but I will send an email to 7 bridges and see if they could get it. if so, well I'll just have to brew 'this' recipe again.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 01:07:36 PM by morticaixavier »
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline wv_brewer

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 04:17:59 PM »
At the risk of jumping your thread, what exactly is cold steeping and what are its advantages?  Does it give you a less bitter roasted flavor? 

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2014, 04:22:38 PM »
At the risk of jumping your thread, what exactly is cold steeping and what are its advantages?  Does it give you a less bitter roasted flavor?

You're spot on with the less bitter roasted flavor assumption. By no means am I an expert on the deal, but my method of cold steeping is to line a stock pot with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. I crush my dark drain, add them to the bag, and then add 2 qt/lb of water. I let them steep for a day and stir occasionally. Then I add the "tea" to the boil with about 20 minutes to go. You will need to use more dark grains with this method than you would if you mashed them.
Frank

Offline wv_brewer

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2014, 03:35:09 AM »
Very interesting.  I'll have to research it a bit further.  I had heard of adding the dark grains to the mash tun just before sparging but had never heard of cold steeping.  Is there a specific reason why you wait until 20 minutes left in the boil to add it to the kettle?  That would make it difficult for me to estimate my final volume.  Can you add it at the beginning of the boil and get the same results?

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2014, 04:09:00 AM »
Very interesting.  I'll have to research it a bit further.  I had heard of adding the dark grains to the mash tun just before sparging but had never heard of cold steeping.  Is there a specific reason why you wait until 20 minutes left in the boil to add it to the kettle?  That would make it difficult for me to estimate my final volume.  Can you add it at the beginning of the boil and get the same results?

I suppose you could. 20 minutes is just enough time to boil out the nasties. I always bring it back to a boil before I start my count again. It is a bit trickier to figure final volume. Just remember you still have the same boil off rate over the coarse of an hour. And you'll still have roughly the same amount of grain absorption as you would in the mash. The part that I'm not a fan of with the process is that the mash will be thicker than I'd like because about a 1/4 of the water is added late to the boil. So I usually cut my sparge water down to compensate the mash water.
Frank

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1874
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2014, 05:46:25 AM »
I have a rye stout schedule for later this year and if I scaled it up to 11 gallons it would be 2.5 pounds of chocolate rye and a little over four pounds of roasted barley. I don't cold steep though, so I'm not sure how to adjust that up for cold steeping.

If chocolate rye isn't immediately available as an organic grain then you could always toss some rye malt in the oven and run it up to a darker color.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3030
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2014, 07:09:28 AM »
At the risk of jumping your thread, what exactly is cold steeping and what are its advantages?  Does it give you a less bitter roasted flavor?

You're spot on with the less bitter roasted flavor assumption. By no means am I an expert on the deal, but my method of cold steeping is to line a stock pot with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. I crush my dark drain, add them to the bag, and then add 2 qt/lb of water. I let them steep for a day and stir occasionally. Then I add the "tea" to the boil with about 20 minutes to go. You will need to use more dark grains with this method than you would if you mashed them.

When you're cold steeping, do you stick the pot in the fridge?  I assume that if it's left at room temp you'd wind up with a bit of souring, but I am no expert.

My last non-Imperial stout tastes too dry for me and it may be the dark grains which were mashed along with the MO.  It could stand to be smooother.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 07:13:51 AM »
At the risk of jumping your thread, what exactly is cold steeping and what are its advantages?  Does it give you a less bitter roasted flavor?

You're spot on with the less bitter roasted flavor assumption. By no means am I an expert on the deal, but my method of cold steeping is to line a stock pot with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. I crush my dark drain, add them to the bag, and then add 2 qt/lb of water. I let them steep for a day and stir occasionally. Then I add the "tea" to the boil with about 20 minutes to go. You will need to use more dark grains with this method than you would if you mashed them.

When you're cold steeping, do you stick the pot in the fridge?  I assume that if it's left at room temp you'd wind up with a bit of souring, but I am no expert.

My last non-Imperial stout tastes too dry for me and it may be the dark grains which were mashed along with the MO.  It could stand to be smooother.

Yes... I guess that should have been disclosed. Cold steeping occurs at room temp haha. I should point out that I do retain a terrific roasted taste, because I use a good quantity of grains. I just find that this is the easiest way for me and my capabilities of brewing to eliminate the harsh bitterness that I get when mashing the dark grains.
Frank