[ultravista]

I have an upcoming brew that calls for WLP545 (Ardennes) but have 530 (Abbey) on hand.

How significantly different would the beer turn out if I were to use 530 instead of 545? Really noticeable or ...?

[chumley]

Westmalle (530) is a little more fruity than LaChouffe (545), but I wouldn't worry about it.

[denny]

I would.  To me the flavor profiles are very different.

[Joe Sr.]

I find the Ardennes strain to be quite distinct.  And it's one of my favorites for lighter colored Belgians.

I think you'll make good beer with either, but if your recipe calls for Ardennes I'd go with that if you can as the yeast will impart a lot of character to the beer.

[HoosierBrew]

I would.  To me the flavor profiles are very different.

+1.  I get more banana/clove from the Westmalle strain, where IMO the LaChouffe strain is somewhat fruity and distinct. As always fermentation temps come into play with esters and phenols. I wouldn't consider them interchangeable though.

[Joe Sr.]

+1.  I get more banana/clove from the Westmalle strain, where IMO the LaChouffe strain is somewhat fruity and distinct.

Definitely banana for the Westmalle.  I get almost a tartness from Ardennes.  But a pleasant tartness.

[wsoublo]

Definitely banana for the Westmalle.  I get almost a tartness from Ardennes.  But a pleasant tartness.

Never tried Ardennes, but I've used Westmalle in a dubbel at 64F (wort temp) and get distinct banana with little-to-no clove.  I was quite disappointed.

[ultravista]

It's for a DFH Raison D'etre batch. I ask because I have 530 on hand from a Westy 12 batch. As long as I am in the same ballpark, I'll be happy.

The batch is pretty simple @ 91% 2 row, 3% chocolate, 2% crystal 60, and 3.4% dark candi sugar.

[denny]

Definitely banana for the Westmalle.  I get almost a tartness from Ardennes.  But a pleasant tartness.

Never tried Ardennes, but I've used Westmalle in a dubbel at 64F (wort temp) and get distinct banana with little-to-no clove.  I was quite disappointed.

Interesting.  When I run it at that temp, I get some nice phenolics and almost no esters.

[bluesman]

Definitely banana for the Westmalle.  I get almost a tartness from Ardennes.  But a pleasant tartness.

Never tried Ardennes, but I've used Westmalle in a dubbel at 64F (wort temp) and get distinct banana with little-to-no clove.  I was quite disappointed.

Interesting.  When I run it at that temp, I get some nice phenolics and almost no esters.

+1

Definitely more of a spicy character and a lower fruitiness at higher temps.

[denny]

Definitely more of a spicy character and a lower fruitiness at higher temps.

I think we're contradicting each other, Ron.  I was saying that at low temps I get more spice and less fruit.   You seem to be saying you get that at higher temps.  Is that right?

[chumley]

I agree with Denny. Westmalle yeast at mid 60s is more spicy and less fruity (which would make an adequate substitute for Ardennes yeast, but I'm not going there.... )

[denny]

I agree with Denny. Westmalle yeast at mid 60s is more spicy and less fruity (which would make an adequate substitute for Ardennes yeast, but I'm not going there.... )

I dunno about "adequate".  It would make it more like the Ardennes, but it still wouldn't have the tart spiciness I like about Ardennes.

[wsoublo]

Interesting.  When I run it at that temp, I get some nice phenolics and almost no esters.

I've only used the 3787 once.  I brewed a 5 gallon batch with a 1.067 OG.  I mashed at 149F, and the malt bill was:

75.5% Pils
7% Munich
7% D180 Sugar
3.5% Special B
3.5% Aromatic
3.5% Caramunich III

After looking at my notes, I see I oxygenated the wort for 45 seconds with pure O2 and pitched a 1.040 2L starter of Wyeast 3787.  This means I pitched roughly 400 Billion, when I needed around 240 Billion.  This probably explains the excessive ester notes I received.  I think I'll need to rebrew this and pitch closer to the target amount to see if I observe more clove.

[ultravista]

Denny - do you get a tart spiciness from DFH Raison D'etre?