Author Topic: Combined threads  (Read 893 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Combined threads
« on: March 22, 2014, 03:22:35 AM »
I posted a couple threads but decided to delete and just combined them.

Fermentor temp control. A couple batches back I tried taping my thermal probe to the fermentor under some foam insulation.  It worked pretty good for that fermentor but not sure it helped the other two. So I went back to ambient thermal probe placement. But, I've arranged my brewing so I can do a planned ramp up. I've been brewing with 2112, 1728, and 1084, all at 55°. The lager comes out perfect, the Scottish is a little too clean and the Irish is even more clean. So what I'm trying is brewing them each a day apart, starting with the lager. So right now the 2112 is at high krausen, the 1728 is getting there, and I just pitched the 1084. I expect the krausen will start falling on the 2112 about the time the 1084 is peaking. Then I'll start a 2° per day ramp up. My hope is to prevent the lager from dropping temp while giving the Irish a bit higher temp so it's not so super clean. Thoughts?


The other post I had was about estimating volume of a repitch. I've used Mr Malty in the past, Brewer's Friend lately. It just seems to me that, since I don't plate my yeast and don't know my cell count, its kind of an educated guess. I've found that a small ball park estimate that works for me is some simple math based on the OG. For ales I take the gravity units, add a zero to the end and Multiply by. 5. So 1.050 is 500*.5=250 ml repitch. For lagers I multiply by. 75. 1.050 is 500*.75=375 ml repitch. Handy if your smartphone is in the house. Thoughts?

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 07:57:14 AM »
It's an interesting idea to conduct multiple different fermentations at once. The best way to figure out if it works is giving it a try. My initial thought was that the temperature ramp might piss off the ale yeast but this week I took a saison from 75 to 85 over the course of a day and that never causes a problem for me so your two degree rise shouldn't be that big of a problem. You may not find that the ales get warm enough fast enough to show off any yeast character but you should be able to remedy that problem by starting fermentation even later in the ramp.

Any reason why you don't just use the slurry calculator on Mr. Malty? It's basically the same thing you're doing but that calculator probably wants you to use a larger volume than what you are calculating.
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Offline redzim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 08:26:16 AM »
Mr Malty calc will also let you adjust for how old your slurry is...

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 01:24:48 PM »
I have Mr Malty and have used it. I'm not against it. I just find it interesting that my method vs Mr malty is like ten or twenty ml different. But without a scope who knows.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 10:37:08 PM »
I'm interested to hear what happens with your experiment.

What are the OGs of the beers you are making?  How fast do these beers usually ferment for you?  I'd want to look at the temperature the fridge over time as the gravity drops in each carboy, that will give you an idea of how much it will affect it.

If it was me I would just brew the lager one weekend and the other two a week later.  Let the lager go at 55 and do the others at 62 and call it good.  But that's just me.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 11:05:46 PM »
Ya, theres a better way. Im trying to get three beers at a brew weekend (3 days) and brewing about every 3-4 weeks, while still brewing some variety.

All three tend to take about 14-21 days to finish up. The lager and irish are usually 1.048-52, and the scot about 1.045-48.

Basically im taking what I learned from having the temp probe measuring wort temp of one beer, and just brewing them in the proper order so that the temp steps are hitting the rights ones when they would benn most. In other words you wouldn't want to start the irish and end with lager because the lager would be at 62º too soon. Im excited to see how this goes. If I get better attenu and a bit more esters in my irish, ill be happy.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 11:15:55 PM »
I would just want the lager to be at 55 for longer than 3 days before ramping it up.

What is your fermentation chamber like?
Tom Schmidlin

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 01:01:13 AM »
Its a big chest freezer with dual temp control. The 3 days is an arbitrary numver. The actual start of ramping would be after krausen falls. Could be longer than 3 days...

So what's a good indicator that it's ready to ramp up?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 03:03:42 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 08:20:14 PM »
I would just want the lager to be at 55 for longer than 3 days before ramping it up.

What is your fermentation chamber like?
You are concerned about yeast growth time.
After that you are home free.
Lagers or not.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 08:56:29 PM »
Thanks!

Last night i was listening to Brew Strong show on fermentor temp control. They said all of the flavor work is in the first 36-48 hrs. Not that BS is the empirical infallible truth of brewing, but made me think I was on the right track.

What I ended up doing was a one degree per day ramp at the end of day 3 for the lager, which is end of day 2 for the Scottish, end of day 1 for the Irish. Started at 55° and its at 58° now. So we're talking ending up at 65° at around two weeks total time.


Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2014, 10:15:25 PM »
I would just want the lager to be at 55 for longer than 3 days before ramping it up.

What is your fermentation chamber like?
You are concerned about yeast growth time.
After that you are home free.
Lagers or not.
Yes. :)

Last night i was listening to Brew Strong show on fermentor temp control. They said all of the flavor work is in the first 36-48 hrs. Not that BS is the empirical infallible truth of brewing, but made me think I was on the right track.
Yes, I agree, however the growth at 55 will be slowed and I am not sure it will be done in 3 days.  For the 36-48 time frame they are probably talking about ales.

I'd trust Leos on lagers though. ; Let us know how it turns out.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2014, 10:52:33 PM »
I will. If this one goes well I'll do it again and take good notes, then maybe send you a sample of each to see what you think.

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 08:28:34 AM »
My typical approach for 6 gal batches (ale or lager) is to keep fermentation at pitching temperature until they get to roughly 50% ADF, then ramp it up to 72°F. Hold there for three days after reaching FG, then cold crash (and lager, in the case of a lager). For an average-gravity lager, that temperature bump generally happens around day 4-5, and they're lagering by around day 12. Unless there's a deadline, they'll still lager for a full month afterward though.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 03:11:26 PM »
I think yeast would grow as long as it has oxygen (and food).
So our 3 day is sort of a magic number.

I start at 50F.
I raze temp 1F each day till I reach 60F.
At that point I am most likely at FG.
Cold crash and let is sit in yeast for a week or so.
Filter, carbonate and package.
Nothing special about lagering.

Last thing is that larger fermenter suppress ester production.
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MaiBock
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Marzen
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Combined threads
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 03:59:17 PM »
Im a big fan of cooler temps. I know that some prefer warmer because cool is too clean. I kind of prefer cleaner. I suppose it depends on the style too though.

I believe my plan is going to work out. All im trying to do is keep my lager clean but not dropping temp after full krausen, and timing that raise in ambient to help the irish not be quite so clean. So far I pitched the lager Wednesday night at 55º, its now Tuesday night and its at 59º.