Author Topic: All flameout hops+whrilpool  (Read 3167 times)

Offline Double-R

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All flameout hops+whrilpool
« on: March 24, 2014, 12:17:16 AM »
So after the boil I cool the wort to under 180,then add hops keeping the wort between 170-180 during the whirlpool/steep.Now do I keep the pump on the entire time,does it need to be moving at all times . I've read anywhere between a 15-30-45 min whirlpool/steep is ideal whats best for flavor and aroma. Are these hops added at different times to get one or the other. Brewed IPA before but this will be my 1st all flameout brew.

1st post.. Thanks for you help

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 01:24:08 AM »
I make a cream ale with no boil hops, the hops go in after the fire is off and the boil subsides. I use about 8 oz. whole Mt. Hood for 10 gallons, run by he pump and whirlpool for 45 minutes. I get good flavor, some aroma, and bitterness around 20-25 IBUs. If you add at 170F you will get more aroma, a little less flavor ( I think), and much less bitterness. High alpha hops at 170F will make up for the diminished bitterness from what I have done. High oil hops (e.g. Citra) should help boost flavor and aroma.

It comes down to the beer you are targeting, the hops you have, and how you use them on your system. You can also add some hops when the whirlpool is around 210F, then more at 170F, some add more hops at 120F.

Brew some beers and see which works for you. Tell us what you like, so we get more feedback on doing this technique.

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Offline blatz

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 02:24:22 PM »
My current ROT is to knock down to 180-185, throw in FO hops, let the pump circulate for 15 min, then turn off the pump and let it sit for 20 more minutes (or more) to let the trub settle.

I seemed to start getting a better trub 'mound' when I turned the pump off the last 20 min.  YMMV
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Offline coolman26

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 02:44:43 PM »
I too cool to about 180 and toss in my FO hops.  I run the whirlpool for 10 min and let settle for 20 min.   I have found that I can get so much more in the aroma and that fresh hop flavor from this. When I toss in at FO, in the above 200 temp, I would get bitterness that was not as smooth.  I really like this technique in my Pils.     
Jeff B

Offline blatz

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 02:59:10 PM »
  I really like this technique in my Pils.   

try FWH and whirlpool only  ;)
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 03:09:09 PM »
I'm targeting 170- 180F currently. I cool to there, add hops, stirring every few minutes. I steep ~ 15 -20 minutes for APA, 45 minutes for AIPA.  Hotter = more bitterness, less aroma, where cooler = less bitterness, better flavor and aroma IME.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 04:36:50 PM »
  I really like this technique in my Pils.   

try FWH and whirlpool only  ;)
Yes. Good advice.
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Offline Double-R

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 05:38:31 PM »
  I really like this technique in my Pils.   

try FWH and whirlpool only  ;)
Yes. Good advice.

Dec issue of Zymurgy,Mitch Steele Hop burst Ipa does a FWH so I'll give it a shot. Its a small amount .02oz of magnum but should help he also mentions it in the tip section..
Thanks to all

Offline erockrph

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2014, 03:25:28 PM »
Sorry I'm late to the party on this one. If you aren't using any boil hops, then you aren't going to want to chill all the way down to 180 or less before adding your flameout hops. You will get next to zero utilization and IBUs at that temp. If you want a controlled amount of IBUs, then add them as a FWH or a boil addition, then do a whirlpool starting around 180-185F. If its an IPA, then I just drop them all in at flameout. The measured IBUs will max out around 100, but it will taste a lot smoother (like a relatively smooth 60 IBU to my palate).

I'd go at least 30-45 minutes on the whirlpool. I actually go 90 minutes on my IPAs, but I might experiment with cutting that down to an hour in the near future.
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Offline blatz

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2014, 05:44:22 PM »
erik - I think we all missed that he was doing an all flameout brew - good catch...
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2014, 05:53:13 PM »
Yep, missed it too. But I did cool to to 185F once when brewing an all flameout beer, to see what I came up with in terms of bitterness. It came out pretty APA-like up front until the huge hop flavor kicked in. While not an IPA per se, it was damn good and really drinkable. I don't rule out doing it again.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2014, 01:35:50 AM »
Yep, missed it too. But I did cool to to 185F once when brewing an all flameout beer, to see what I came up with in terms of bitterness. It came out pretty APA-like up front until the huge hop flavor kicked in. While not an IPA per se, it was damn good and really drinkable. I don't rule out doing it again.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll get a bit of isomerization if you use enough hops and hold it warm enough for long enough. But unless you really have your system dialed in, I think you're better off adding a (relatively) known amount of IBU's in the boil, then dropping the temp post-flameout before adding your flameout hops. This gives you a lot more control over the final results. I do think you have a bit of leeway in overshooting the IBU's from a post-boil addition, because it's a lot smoother bitterness.
Eric B.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2014, 12:15:46 PM »
Yep, missed it too. But I did cool to to 185F once when brewing an all flameout beer, to see what I came up with in terms of bitterness. It came out pretty APA-like up front until the huge hop flavor kicked in. While not an IPA per se, it was damn good and really drinkable. I don't rule out doing it again.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll get a bit of isomerization if you use enough hops and hold it warm enough for long enough. But unless you really have your system dialed in, I think you're better off adding a (relatively) known amount of IBU's in the boil, then dropping the temp post-flameout before adding your flameout hops. This gives you a lot more control over the final results. I do think you have a bit of leeway in overshooting the IBU's from a post-boil addition, because it's a lot smoother bitterness.

I don't disagree if you're making an IPA, for sure.  When I started doing hop stands I experimented to see what bitterness I could achieve with different temp and times. I concluded that too. But all hops @ 185F for 45 mins makes a pretty interesting beer, though.
Jon H.

Offline brewcrew7

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 04:15:30 PM »
I think I'm going to try Jeff's cream ale technique, ala Pelican's Kiwana. Would any of you care to comment on how particular hops differ when used in late-boil versus flameout/whirlpool additions? I would have to think a difference exists beyond just "smoothness". Maybe something is more floral than citrusy depending on when you add it. Same applies to dryhopping I guess, right?

Offline erockrph

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Re: All flameout hops+whrilpool
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 05:24:03 PM »
I haven't noticed a difference in types of flavors/aromas depending on the time of the addition (on the hot side at least). But flameout additions give me a lot more flavor than an equivalent boil addition in my experience.
Eric B.

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