[philm63]

What about the effect of water-to-grain ratio regarding conversion times? If you go fairly tight, say; 1.2 qts/Lb, should conversion take longer?

[dmtaylor]

Water to grain ratio is an overblown variable at the homebrew scale.  If the mash is reasonably wet, e.g., 1.0 qts/lb, you're going to get good conversion.  If the mash is quite thin, e.g., 3.0 qts/lb, you're going to get good conversion.  If the mash is still kind of dry, e.g., 0.8 qts/lb, you're probably not going to get good conversion.  If you throw the mash into the virtually infinite Pacific Ocean where there are an unknown but probably low amount of enzymes, you're probably not going to get good conversion.  I figure anything between 1.0 and 3.0 qts/lb is good.  More experiments may be necessary to confirm.  I will allow others to run these experiments.

[denny]

What about the effect of water-to-grain ratio regarding conversion times? If you go fairly tight, say; 1.2 qts/Lb, should conversion take longer?

It has virtually no effect.

[euge]

I'm not so sure about this "crush til you're scared" mantra. After much experimentation over the years my own preference is a somewhat coarser crush with the particles about pin-head sized and large pieces of husk- not a bunch of flour. I do tend to mash all of my beers sub-150F and for a bit longer than 60 minutes- my eff is in the 80's. I haven't done a conversion test since the first time in 2007.

I produce significantly larger batches than 3 gallons so the coarser grist allows for uneventful lautering. And uneventful lautering is good...

[stevenb]

I was talking with some of the brewers at Dry Dock Brewing Co. and they have told me that conversion happens within the first 20-30 minutes of mashing.  I tried this with my last batch and it seems to be fairly true.  I was .02 off of my gravity nut everything else seems to be fine.  Again, this was a casual conversation with some of the brewers at DDBC.

[hopfenundmalz]

I was talking with some of the brewers at Dry Dock Brewing Co. and they have told me that conversion happens within the first 20-30 minutes of mashing.  I tried this with my last batch and it seems to be fairly true.  I was .02 off of my gravity nut everything else seems to be fine.  Again, this was a casual conversation with some of the brewers at DDBC.

While that is true, the enzymes continue to break down the dextrins into fermentable sugars. There was Basic Brewing Radio podcast on 2/11/2011 that compares different mash times. The low time mash did not taste as well.

I do an hour to 75 minutes for infusions.

[denny]

I'm not so sure about this "crush til you're scared" mantra. After much experimentation over the years my own preference is a somewhat coarser crush with the particles about pin-head sized and large pieces of husk- not a bunch of flour. I do tend to mash all of my beers sub-150F and for a bit longer than 60 minutes- my eff is in the 80's. I haven't done a conversion test since the first time in 2007.

I produce significantly larger batches than 3 gallons so the coarser grist allows for uneventful lautering. And uneventful lautering is good...

I still go with "crush til you're scared" and after 453 batches I've never had a stuck runoff.  I think the take away is to find out what works for your own equipment and stick with it.

[dmtaylor]

I was talking with some of the brewers at Dry Dock Brewing Co. and they have told me that conversion happens within the first 20-30 minutes of mashing.  I tried this with my last batch and it seems to be fairly true.  I was .02 off of my gravity nut everything else seems to be fine.  Again, this was a casual conversation with some of the brewers at DDBC.

Jeff Rankert is right about dextrins changing to more fermentable sugars with a longer mash time.  I've run a lot of experiments and proved that 20-30 minutes may result in a low attenuating beer, e.g., if you are expecting 75% apparent attenuation, you might only get attenuation in the 60s with such a short mash.  I also proved to myself for my own system that 40 minutes was long enough to hit the desired attenuation, e.g., 75% or whatever.  I mash almost all my beers from 40-45 minutes and haven't had any problems at all since I started doing that (about 6 years ago).  60-75 minutes won't hurt anything, but it isn't necessary, at least not on my system.

[denny]

I was talking with some of the brewers at Dry Dock Brewing Co. and they have told me that conversion happens within the first 20-30 minutes of mashing.  I tried this with my last batch and it seems to be fairly true.  I was .02 off of my gravity nut everything else seems to be fine.  Again, this was a casual conversation with some of the brewers at DDBC.

Commercial brewers can get away with that because it takes them hours to mash in and sparge.  All that time, they're at conversion temps.  So although they only need to hold the rest for 20-30 min., they're in the temp range much longer.

[dmtaylor]

Yep, and that, too.  Big difference between commercial timeframes and homebrew scale.

[stevenb]

I agree as well.  My mash times are usually 75-90 minutes when I brew.

[erockrph]

In the end, everyone needs to determine what is right for their system and calibrate to that. I mash for 75 minutes on most beers because I was getting lower efficiency on small beers. I no sparge and have a relatively thin mash, so that's what works for me in my system.

[denny]

In the end, everyone needs to determine what is right for their system and calibrate to that. I mash for 75 minutes on most beers because I was getting lower efficiency on small beers. I no sparge and have a relatively thin mash, so that's what works for me in my system.

You get today's Gold Star of Pragmatism!

[erockrph]

In the end, everyone needs to determine what is right for their system and calibrate to that. I mash for 75 minutes on most beers because I was getting lower efficiency on small beers. I no sparge and have a relatively thin mash, so that's what works for me in my system.

You get today's Gold Star of Pragmatism!

I'm honored. Maybe I can convince my 3 year old to clean up his toys after dinner so we both can rock the gold stars tonight