Author Topic: Grainy Pils flavor  (Read 1037 times)

Offline flask1

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Grainy Pils flavor
« on: March 28, 2014, 08:35:33 AM »
Does the grainy flavor in a pilsner come from sparging or is it just in the malt's flavor?

Could you make a no sparge pilsner?

Thanks,
Flask

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7514
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 09:02:21 AM »
it comes from the malt. you should could make a no sparge pilsner.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline dmtaylor

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1484
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 10:37:15 AM »
I always figured pilsner malt has a slightly honey-like flavor that you get from no other malt.  I love it.  Yeah, it's from the malt itself, not from the sparge or process.
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7514
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 11:24:00 AM »
I always figured pilsner malt has a slightly honey-like flavor that you get from no other malt.  I love it.  Yeah, it's from the malt itself, not from the sparge or process.

I always get grape. but you are right, it's unique as far as my experience goes. it's the only reason I don't just use pale malt for everything.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 14089
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 11:25:09 AM »
I always figured pilsner malt has a slightly honey-like flavor that you get from no other malt.  I love it.  Yeah, it's from the malt itself, not from the sparge or process.

I always get grape. but you are right, it's unique as far as my experience goes. it's the only reason I don't just use pale malt for everything.

With Weyermann, I get grass/hay.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7514
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 11:48:23 AM »
I always figured pilsner malt has a slightly honey-like flavor that you get from no other malt.  I love it.  Yeah, it's from the malt itself, not from the sparge or process.

I always get grape. but you are right, it's unique as far as my experience goes. it's the only reason I don't just use pale malt for everything.

With Weyermann, I get grass/hay.

hmm. maybe I'll have to give that a try at some point seems like it would go well in a farmhouse with some herbal noble hops or pacific gem. I love blackberries because one of the really subtle notes I get is warm summer hay fields and the PG throws a fair amount of blackberry to my taste.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Online HoosierBrew

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6788
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 03:08:34 PM »
I always figured pilsner malt has a slightly honey-like flavor that you get from no other malt.  I love it.  Yeah, it's from the malt itself, not from the sparge or process.

I always get grape. but you are right, it's unique as far as my experience goes. it's the only reason I don't just use pale malt for everything.

With Weyermann, I get grass/hay.

Me too. Grainy/grass/hay. In a good way.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 5243
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 03:26:23 PM »
I get feed store but in a great way

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1774
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 06:01:58 PM »
Is the grassy/hay of a wet variety or dry?

I obviously have no palate for this craft, given these levels of perception.  I thought Weyermanns always produced a nice malty lager or pilsner, as long as I didn't use a grassy hop!
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline flask1

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 06:18:19 PM »
Gentlemen,
Thank you for the insight.

Flask

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1774
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 06:46:35 PM »
Flask - a lot of us were having some fun.  That's what happens on this forum when guys get into the hobby to the level that some of us are at....your question was a good one and deserves an honest answer, so forgive me and anyone else who went sideways with a humorous or not so humorous response.

I think everyone would say that pilsner malt lends a bit of "graininess" to a wort as compared to some other 2 row malts, but graininess is subjective, so as Denny says - he perceives it as hay/ grassiness for Weyermann's  pilsner malt, but probably prefers Best Malz for a pilsner malt.  I have used a lot of different malt and currently may favor Avengard pilsner over some others, but some may like Weyermanns for its flavor, despite the hay.  All said and done, you are probably right that pilsner malt of a manufacturer is a little more grainy than another malt of the same maltster.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 5243
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 06:55:51 PM »
Ya its hard to translate some flavor/aromas to words that work. I understand grass if its a dried out mature grass and you're only tastung the kernels. I guess that would be grain though. I think pils, especially continental, is like pale malt minus the kilned processed aspect.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8077
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2014, 06:17:20 AM »
Some of the flavors you are talking about might come from tannins and in that case, perhaps, (forgive me Denny) you might get a more traditional grainy flavor from fly sparging. Maybe. I'm not saying that is the case for sure but I have wondered in the past. Same with decoction mashing. You may get more tannin character out of decoction mashing which may translate to more grainy flavor.
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6392
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2014, 07:04:22 AM »
There are certain flavors I get in German Pilsners I brew. Durst malt would give an no salt saltine cracker flavor. The Avangard Pils I just have on tap is very "white bread" in the white, not the crust. Weyermann is more neutral to me, but I have enough noble hops that it would be hard to tell if it is the hops or malt that would give grassy flavor or aroma.

When I had Pivo Pils at Firestone Walker - that had a grainy flavor in the finish. My guess is that they use a NA 2 row pils malt for that.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline anthony

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
  • Hoppy to help!
    • View Profile
    • Triptych
Re: Grainy Pils flavor
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2014, 04:52:45 PM »
Firestone has said, at least in the past, that Pivo is 100% German malt.

http://thefullpint.com/beer-news/firestone-walker-pivo-pils-preliminary-details/