Author Topic: Consensus while judging?  (Read 3277 times)

Offline MDixon

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2014, 06:05:58 PM »
The bottom line is they had two judges on the flight who had no business being there. New judges should not do specialty and neither should those who cannot make a decision.

13 is a very low score...think undrinkable wretching at the flavor making you want to blow chunks. I rarely go down there because I can award points other places. I'm guessing the 13 was too low. Sounds like the other score was too high and the middle ground is more appropriate.
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Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2014, 08:58:03 PM »
I only considered giving the beer a thirteen because I could barely drink it. I never actually wrote thirteen on the score sheet.  My first score was in the low twenties, which I thought was generous.   I was completely flabbergasted when I saw that the other judge had written "Fantastic!" on his score sheet (his score was in the low forties).   
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2014, 10:02:45 PM »
I hated that beer so very very much. :)

Are you serious?  I thought that you were kidding.  Who would brew a tomatoweizen?  Better yet, who would enter it in a contest?
Unfortunately it wasn't for a contest, a guy brought a keg to a meeting so I had to drink it in front of him and tell him what I thought of it.   :(

I agree 13 is really low and I can usually score a beer higher than that.  But I've had some that 13 was truly a courtesy, even the appearance was a 1/3 at best.  And there have been some that I refused to taste, and it's hard to score taste/mouthfeel when the smell is so offensive you don't want to put it in your mouth.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2014, 02:32:36 AM »
The new guide needs a Dare section. Ordinary Dare, Extra Special Dare, and Double Dog Dare.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2014, 04:59:19 AM »
I hated that beer so very very much. :)

Are you serious?  I thought that you were kidding.  Who would brew a tomatoweizen?  Better yet, who would enter it in a contest?

Wow, I thought it was a joke too. There's pushing the brewing envelope, and then there's just brewing s^%t.
Jon H.

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2014, 05:45:07 AM »
I hated that beer so very very much. :)

Are you serious?  I thought that you were kidding.  Who would brew a tomatoweizen?  Better yet, who would enter it in a contest?

Wow, I thought it was a joke too. There's pushing the brewing envelope, and then there's just brewing s^%t.
After black garlic stout, I think nothing is a joke.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2014, 07:32:34 AM »
I judged a beer last month for a competition and it was just awful. I gave it a very generous 19 because the competition didn't want to score any lower unless there was a good reason and apparently horrendous taste just wasn't good enough. It was like somebody really screwed up their first beer and decided to enter it in a competition anyway. At least my judging partner gave it a similar score.
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Offline denny

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2014, 09:02:47 AM »
As an entrant, I always treat the erased pencil marks as my true scores.  I sometimes wish that the judges wouldn't erase so hard so that I could actually read their original scores.

I think that's a big mistake.  I know that most of the time when I change a score, it's because my initial score was reached too quickly and after further consideration and tasting I have changed my mind.
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Offline denny

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2014, 09:04:50 AM »
I agree 13 is really low and I can usually score a beer higher than that.  But I've had some that 13 was truly a courtesy, even the appearance was a 1/3 at best.  And there have been some that I refused to taste, and it's hard to score taste/mouthfeel when the smell is so offensive you don't want to put it in your mouth.

John Maier was judging at a comp I was running once.   We had set the low score as 13.  There was a particular beer that he absolutely refused to score higher than 5.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2014, 09:07:42 AM »
As an entrant, I always treat the erased pencil marks as my true scores.  I sometimes wish that the judges wouldn't erase so hard so that I could actually read their original scores.

I think that's a big mistake.  I know that most of the time when I change a score, it's because my initial score was reached too quickly and after further consideration and tasting I have changed my mind.

I agree, I often find myself going back and adjusting beers that were scored early in the flight or late in the flight because I was being too critical early on.  My final score is probably more real and maybe more useful than the first impression.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2014, 09:42:23 AM »
As an entrant, I always treat the erased pencil marks as my true scores.  I sometimes wish that the judges wouldn't erase so hard so that I could actually read their original scores.

I think that's a big mistake.  I know that most of the time when I change a score, it's because my initial score was reached too quickly and after further consideration and tasting I have changed my mind.

I agree, I often find myself going back and adjusting beers that were scored early in the flight or late in the flight because I was being too critical early on.  My final score is probably more real and maybe more useful than the first impression.

+3

Plus, as an entrant I'm less worried about the scores and more worried about the feedback anyway. A 42 isn't going to make my beer better, but useful feedback will.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »
At the NHC in Orlando I was alerted to a pair of score sheets that gave a beer a score of 12 (I think) with very few comments on the sheet other than "some oxidized notes."  The two judges were nationally known and respected.  As competition organizer I asked one of them if there was anything else about it that made it score so low.  When the answer was "no" I got another BJCP National and we rejudged the beer so we wouldn't have to explain the bad score sheets to the entrant.  I think we gave it a 33.  Good beer with a minor flaw.
I don't mind seeing low scores, but there had better be a lot of writing to explain it.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2014, 10:13:11 AM »
At the NHC in Orlando I was alerted to a pair of score sheets that gave a beer a score of 12 (I think) with very few comments on the sheet other than "some oxidized notes."  The two judges were nationally known and respected.  As competition organizer I asked one of them if there was anything else about it that made it score so low.  When the answer was "no" I got another BJCP National and we rejudged the beer so we wouldn't have to explain the bad score sheets to the entrant.  I think we gave it a 33.  Good beer with a minor flaw.
I don't mind seeing low scores, but there had better be a lot of writing to explain it.

Now that's a good competition organizer. 
"I'm in charge, this isn't right, and I'm not putting my name on something where an entrant is treated like this"

Offline dixonmike20

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2014, 11:24:51 AM »
That large a disparity would indicate one of the judges is wrong on style or being able to perceive flavors.

I would expected flavor perception would be effected if they've been judging a lot of beers. The palate gets bombarded.

Also, I've seen experienced judges clearly not know the style guideline, but act like they know it all. It's not hard, they can always look at the guidelines to be sure.
 
It could also be a matter of exposure to the style. Knowing the guideline is different than having experience tasting commercial examples. For instance, many Americans, even judges, would not recognize an English IPA as an IPA, even when accounting for a lower IBU. If they don't have a frame of reference, they simply don't know what its supposed to taste like. Taste as many English IPAs available here or spend some time in the UK tasting different IPAs and you'll understand. The same goes for any style.


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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Consensus while judging?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2014, 11:27:30 AM »
At the NHC in Orlando I was alerted to a pair of score sheets that gave a beer a score of 12 (I think) with very few comments on the sheet other than "some oxidized notes."  The two judges were nationally known and respected.  As competition organizer I asked one of them if there was anything else about it that made it score so low.  When the answer was "no" I got another BJCP National and we rejudged the beer so we wouldn't have to explain the bad score sheets to the entrant.  I think we gave it a 33.  Good beer with a minor flaw.
I don't mind seeing low scores, but there had better be a lot of writing to explain it.

Now that's a good competition organizer. 
"I'm in charge, this isn't right, and I'm not putting my name on something where an entrant is treated like this"

Exactly my thoughts! Good work Jeffy.
Amanda Burkemper
Kansas City Bier Meister; BJCP Master
Redbird Brewhouse - There's Always a Project
Our Homebrewed Wedding, AHA Article