Author Topic: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?  (Read 2305 times)

Offline jessup42

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Re: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2014, 06:42:20 PM »
there's an overhead roof just outside of the garage door so no worries with inclement weather.  it's a given that it will suck outside in the cold with the garage door open, but it will be a price i will have to pay.  maybe i'll have to pull the brew rig up to the garage door and not go outside.  to go electric with elements, control panels, exhaust hoods and permits, potential for scorching, cleaning elements, very limited electrical experience and everything else that goes with it i'd rather stick with what i'm comfortable with.  propane costs will be the least of my worries.  over time there will be definite conveniences added, but i need to see if it's even worth my time.  right now the overhead is very reasonable and the demand may very well make it at least profitable.  at the very least it will be a good learning experience to live and grow by. 

there are numerous breweries in the area (within 30miles) doing legit 10 gallon breweries on Sabco systems that i can't believe are turning a profit, but somehow they are with staff and all.  possibly the "best" brewery in town is doing 1 bbl batches and is doing really well.  i'm hoping to have even half their success.  considering i have a 2 bbl system and can double their capacity hopefully i will be so lucky.  it sounds ridiculous but it is true.  if i can sell out of beer then i can consider this a success and will consider expanding or at least adding some conveniences.  if not, well, then you can all say i told you so....  time will tell.  5/5 will be the "condition use permit" town committee determination so if that doesn't happen then nothing will for the time being. 

Offline majorvices

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Re: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2014, 05:08:37 AM »
Honestly, unless they are serving other beer along side their own I DON't BELIEVE anyone is making a profit on a 10 gallon Sabco system. It's just not possible unless they are selling pints for $50 each.
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »
When people running 10 gallon systems talk about profit, they are rarely considering everything that it costs to produce and serve the beer.  It is easy to make a "profit" selling beer, especially if rent, utilities, and NNN are free because it is at your house or part of another business that is paying those costs anyway, and if you are not paying yourself for the time to make or pour the beer.  It's like kids with a lemonade stand who think they made $3 selling lemonade at $.25 per glass, never considering that they didn't buy the sugar, lemons, water, cups, pitcher, ice, ice maker or trays, electricity to make the ice, table, chairs, cardboard for the sign, markers for the sign, and a few other things I'm probably leaving out.

It's fine if it pays for the cost of doing business and you are doing it because you love it, but to me that is not the same as making a profit.  In my book, you are not (and we will not be) profitable unless you can afford to pay someone (or yourself) a fair wage to do all of the work, pay all of the bills, put money away for maintenance when something inevitably breaks, and have a penny left over.  That penny is your profit.

I know some people running nanos in my area.  The only way they are "profitable" is when they do it on their own property so they have no lease costs to deal with, and several of the other costs are just part of their regular household costs.  No one submeters their own garage.  They also either keep their day jobs or have spouses to help pay the bills.  Maybe they can pull a little money occasionally or afford to upgrade equipment, but they are not paying themselves what their time is worth.  I think Mic of Dungeness Brewing is a good example here, maybe he will weigh in.

This is not meant to discourage anyone from doing it, but don't expect to make a living at it.  If you think that is the right path for you and will help you build your name while you build a bigger brewery, or if you are doing it as a hobby business, go for it!  There are success stories of people who started small and built a good brand that became a reliable source of income.  But I ran the numbers, and for my area and the associated costs I didn't think we could make enough money for it to be my full-time job with less than a 10 bbl system.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2014, 04:40:02 PM »
When people running 10 gallon systems talk about profit, they are rarely considering everything that it costs to produce and serve the beer.  It is easy to make a "profit" selling beer, especially if rent, utilities, and NNN are free because it is at your house or part of another business that is paying those costs anyway, and if you are not paying yourself for the time to make or pour the beer.  It's like kids with a lemonade stand who think they made $3 selling lemonade at $.25 per glass, never considering that they didn't buy the sugar, lemons, water, cups, pitcher, ice, ice maker or trays, electricity to make the ice, table, chairs, cardboard for the sign, markers for the sign, and a few other things I'm probably leaving out.

It's fine if it pays for the cost of doing business and you are doing it because you love it, but to me that is not the same as making a profit.  In my book, you are not (and we will not be) profitable unless you can afford to pay someone (or yourself) a fair wage to do all of the work, pay all of the bills, put money away for maintenance when something inevitably breaks, and have a penny left over.  That penny is your profit.

I know some people running nanos in my area.  The only way they are "profitable" is when they do it on their own property so they have no lease costs to deal with, and several of the other costs are just part of their regular household costs.  No one submeters their own garage.  They also either keep their day jobs or have spouses to help pay the bills.  Maybe they can pull a little money occasionally or afford to upgrade equipment, but they are not paying themselves what their time is worth.  I think Mic of Dungeness Brewing is a good example here, maybe he will weigh in.

This is not meant to discourage anyone from doing it, but don't expect to make a living at it.  If you think that is the right path for you and will help you build your name while you build a bigger brewery, or if you are doing it as a hobby business, go for it!  There are success stories of people who started small and built a good brand that became a reliable source of income.  But I ran the numbers, and for my area and the associated costs I didn't think we could make enough money for it to be my full-time job with less than a 10 bbl system.
Tom, this sums it up so concisely. Should be a sticky.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Doubling/Tripling your estimated start-up costs. Where?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2014, 09:52:41 PM »
When people running 10 gallon systems talk about profit, they are rarely considering everything that it costs to produce and serve the beer.  It is easy to make a "profit" selling beer, especially if rent, utilities, and NNN are free because it is at your house or part of another business that is paying those costs anyway, and if you are not paying yourself for the time to make or pour the beer.  It's like kids with a lemonade stand who think they made $3 selling lemonade at $.25 per glass, never considering that they didn't buy the sugar, lemons, water, cups, pitcher, ice, ice maker or trays, electricity to make the ice, table, chairs, cardboard for the sign, markers for the sign, and a few other things I'm probably leaving out.

It's fine if it pays for the cost of doing business and you are doing it because you love it, but to me that is not the same as making a profit.  In my book, you are not (and we will not be) profitable unless you can afford to pay someone (or yourself) a fair wage to do all of the work, pay all of the bills, put money away for maintenance when something inevitably breaks, and have a penny left over.  That penny is your profit.

I know some people running nanos in my area.  The only way they are "profitable" is when they do it on their own property so they have no lease costs to deal with, and several of the other costs are just part of their regular household costs.  No one submeters their own garage.  They also either keep their day jobs or have spouses to help pay the bills.  Maybe they can pull a little money occasionally or afford to upgrade equipment, but they are not paying themselves what their time is worth.  I think Mic of Dungeness Brewing is a good example here, maybe he will weigh in.

This is not meant to discourage anyone from doing it, but don't expect to make a living at it.  If you think that is the right path for you and will help you build your name while you build a bigger brewery, or if you are doing it as a hobby business, go for it!  There are success stories of people who started small and built a good brand that became a reliable source of income.  But I ran the numbers, and for my area and the associated costs I didn't think we could make enough money for it to be my full-time job with less than a 10 bbl system.
Tom, this sums it up so concisely. Should be a sticky.
I don't know if I would say it is concise, but thanks :)
Tom Schmidlin