Author Topic: cider with wlp 070 bourbon  (Read 1062 times)

Offline jimrod

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cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« on: April 02, 2014, 07:11:45 AM »
I received a bottle of white labs wlp 070 bourbon yeast from a friend and wanted to know if anyone had ever used it for a cider or mead? The summary states that it is used in high gravity beers and bourbon liquors.  Attenuation at 80%.

I was trying for a Cycer. 15 Lbs honey, 5 gal apple juice. Something that would start at 1.120 and end around 1.025.

Any comments?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 07:44:14 AM »
use lot's of nutrients. no matter how supposedly beefy the yeast it comes down to how you treat them as to whether you can get them to finish a big ferment like that.

that being said, with enough yeast and enough nutrients I don't see why it wouldn't get a 1.120 honey/cider must down to 1.000 (or more likely 0.9~).

the attenuations numbers are for a grain based wort and a very specific wort of constant makeup. So it's useful for comparing different yeasts from the same lab but not all that accurate in the real world. and the nature of barely wort means no yeast is going to reach 100% apparent attenuation. but in a simple sugar must it almost certainly will, unless you reach the actual alcohol tolerance level of the yeast (which is also probably NOT what it says on the package in the real world).
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 09:55:43 AM »
I also would expect it to have little trouble going past 1.025 if treated well.  I've gotten exasperated with some of these high alcohol tolerances, and have started making smaller beverages and back-sweetening later.  it takes a while to taste the same, but I'm in no hurry, and I much prefer drinking things in the 10-12% range and occasionally even lower over the 16%+ range.

if you really want the high alcohol that this strain supposedly has tolerance for I'd go above 1.120 here.  however I do not pretend to know its nutrient requirements.

good luck--
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Online pete b

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 06:20:54 PM »
I received a bottle of white labs wlp 070 bourbon yeast from a friend and wanted to know if anyone had ever used it for a cider or mead? The summary states that it is used in high gravity beers and bourbon liquors.  Attenuation at 80%.

I was trying for a Cycer. 15 Lbs honey, 5 gal apple juice. Something that would start at 1.120 and end around 1.025.

Any comments?
We make cyser every year with fresh apple cider, honey, wine yeast, pectin enzyme, and sometimes spices. ( if you don't use pectin enzyme expect it to be cloudy).
I would expect that with this yeast, assuming it takes off in a completely different environment then what it was bred from, it will result in a very hot and dry cyser. We make a cyser with a bit less honey, i would say 12 pounds/5 gallons and 3gallons cider and 1 gallon water/5 gal. We brought it down from a higher gravity because it was still hot after bottling a year later, and that was with a yeast that was leaving residual sugar. It needed a few weeks aged in the bottle to mellow. If this yeast ferments it to dryness, which it might, I think it will be very hot and astringent. I would expect a few years in the cellar before you like it.
On the other hand, I wonder if you could make a good brandy by using this yeast and say a year later distilling with a still or by freezing then aging a few years.
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Offline jimrod

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 08:49:21 AM »
This apple mead ended up at 1.150....very high.
Do you think there will be any problems with this high gravity?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 07:32:02 PM »
As long as you pitch enough yeast, degas and feed according to a solid nutrient schedule you'll be fine. Someone with more specific knowledge can point you in the right direction for a good feeding schedule
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Offline erockrph

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 08:22:42 PM »
This apple mead ended up at 1.150....very high.
Do you think there will be any problems with this high gravity?

I'm not really sure how that yeast handles a gravity that high, but if you control your temps and follow the right nutrient schedule, then the only issue I forsee is where the FG is going to end up. 1.150 is not unheard of for a cyser's OG. But, depending on the yeast, it could finish anywhere from 1.020's to 1.050's.
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Online pete b

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 05:53:58 PM »
This apple mead ended up at 1.150....very high.
Do you think there will be any problems with this high gravity?
If you use a wine yeast with an alcohol tolerance of 13-14% that gravity should be fine. I have a feeling that this yeast won't leave the mouth feel and honey character that is desirable in a cyser.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 07:21:57 AM »
I received a bottle of white labs wlp 070 bourbon yeast from a friend and wanted to know if anyone had ever used it for a cider or mead? The summary states that it is used in high gravity beers and bourbon liquors.  Attenuation at 80%.

I was trying for a Cycer. 15 Lbs honey, 5 gal apple juice. Something that would start at 1.120 and end around 1.025.

Any comments?
We make cyser every year with fresh apple cider, honey, wine yeast, pectin enzyme, and sometimes spices. ( if you don't use pectin enzyme expect it to be cloudy).[...]

I've only made cyser once. it was 4 gallons of fresh cider and 1 gallon of honey. I didn't use pectic enzyme and had no problems with cloudiness. it was dry and crystal clear. I did use champagne yeast for that one. if you don't heat the cider up to a point where the pectin sets there shouldn't be a problem with pectin haze should there? at least that's how I understand it.
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Online pete b

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 06:45:21 PM »

I've only made cyser once. it was 4 gallons of fresh cider and 1 gallon of honey. I didn't use pectic enzyme and had no problems with cloudiness. it was dry and crystal clear. I did use champagne yeast for that one. if you don't heat the cider up to a point where the pectin sets there shouldn't be a problem with pectin haze should there? at least that's how I understand it.
[/quote]
That might be true but my honey is raw and almost always solid so we need to heat a portion of the cider up quite a bit to get the honey to liquify and mix in. I don't think it needs to be nearly as hot as it needs to be to set a jam as it does to cause haze. We put it in as a failsafe as it is cheap given the quantity used and also is supposed to extract more flavor from the fruit while fermenting.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 07:35:09 AM »

I've only made cyser once. it was 4 gallons of fresh cider and 1 gallon of honey. I didn't use pectic enzyme and had no problems with cloudiness. it was dry and crystal clear. I did use champagne yeast for that one. if you don't heat the cider up to a point where the pectin sets there shouldn't be a problem with pectin haze should there? at least that's how I understand it.
That might be true but my honey is raw and almost always solid so we need to heat a portion of the cider up quite a bit to get the honey to liquify and mix in. I don't think it needs to be nearly as hot as it needs to be to set a jam as it does to cause haze. We put it in as a failsafe as it is cheap given the quantity used and also is supposed to extract more flavor from the fruit while fermenting.
[/quote]

my honey was raw as well. I'm not saying not to use the enzyme. I'm just saying not using it doesn't ensure cloudy cyser. you can warm the honey in a double boiler to liquefy and not heat the cider at all as well.
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Online pete b

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 05:15:46 AM »

I've only made cyser once. it was 4 gallons of fresh cider and 1 gallon of honey. I didn't use pectic enzyme and had no problems with cloudiness. it was dry and crystal clear. I did use champagne yeast for that one. if you don't heat the cider up to a point where the pectin sets there shouldn't be a problem with pectin haze should there? at least that's how I understand it.
That might be true but my honey is raw and almost always solid so we need to heat a portion of the cider up quite a bit to get the honey to liquify and mix in. I don't think it needs to be nearly as hot as it needs to be to set a jam as it does to cause haze. We put it in as a failsafe as it is cheap given the quantity used and also is supposed to extract more flavor from the fruit while fermenting.

my honey was raw as well. I'm not saying not to use the enzyme. I'm just saying not using it doesn't ensure cloudy cyser. you can warm the honey in a double boiler to liquefy and not heat the cider at all as well.
[/quote]

Your right. I should have said "may" cause haziness. I find it much easier to heat the liquid rather than the honey when making mead because its less time and less clean up. Even when I have honey that is still liquid I warm the liquid so it will mix well.
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Offline jimrod

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2014, 08:41:10 AM »
This mead seems to be finished after 2 weeks at FG 1.060............I think it is too sweet.
Any suggestions?  Will this yeast take it down more than a few points or should I consider another option?

SG 1.150

I could go with a WLP 099 super high gravity yeast that can ferment up to 25%
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:45:38 AM by jimrod »
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Offline erockrph

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 04:52:53 AM »
This mead seems to be finished after 2 weeks at FG 1.060............I think it is too sweet.
Any suggestions?  Will this yeast take it down more than a few points or should I consider another option?

SG 1.150

I could go with a WLP 099 super high gravity yeast that can ferment up to 25%

You sure it's finished that soon? My big meads are still slowly finishing up the last 10-20 points through weeks 3-4. Of course, that's with 71B. I have no experience with this yeast. What's your fermentation temp?
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Offline jimrod

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Re: cider with wlp 070 bourbon
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 07:34:43 AM »
I started this back 3 weeks ago on 4-4-14.....The serving temp is around 70* although is has spiked up to 78* during a 3 day hot spell. I thought it might be finished because there isn't airlock activity.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 07:36:59 AM by jimrod »
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