Author Topic: Gusher Infection?  (Read 1833 times)

Offline gymrat

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2014, 06:58:10 PM »
They really get that hot?  I wouldn't have guessed that.  I do think that there is a big difference between the bottles used in the US and the ones used in Canada.  We've had beer bottle re-use by the big breweries for years, I'm unsure if the US does the same but I think our bottles are thicker and they seem thicker when I look at them in order to be re-used more frequently.

The theory is that the repeated heating and cooling induces stress fractures.  No personal experience, but that's what I've heard from people who do it.

I have been baking my bottles at 250 for an hour for 2 years now. No issues yet.
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Offline gymrat

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2014, 07:01:54 PM »
They really get that hot?  I wouldn't have guessed that.  I do think that there is a big difference between the bottles used in the US and the ones used in Canada.  We've had beer bottle re-use by the big breweries for years, I'm unsure if the US does the same but I think our bottles are thicker and they seem thicker when I look at them in order to be re-used more frequently.

The theory is that the repeated heating and cooling induces stress fractures.  No personal experience, but that's what I've heard from people who do it.

Maybe that's more of an issue when using dry heat in an oven, where you generally use higher temps for a longer period of time. I'm thinking that if the "Sanitize" setting on dishwashers lead to weakened glass, there'd be some kind of cautions on the machine. It would just take one glass baby bottle breaking in some kids face for some serious law suits.

I have bottles that have been through at least a couple dozen sanitize cycles with no ill effect that I can see. The only bottles that I have trouble with occasional breaks are Sierra Nevada ones. I think that is just an issue of my wing capper not working well with them, since they just seems to snap/crush at the neck.

I don't think it is the heating and cooling that makes a difference, I think it is the how fast you cool that does. I know at our shop we "temper" metal by cooling it fast with water, that makes it much harder, but makes it more brittle. If we let it air cool it does not change it's properties at all. When I bake my bottles at 250 I do not open the oven door at all until I am sure they have reached room temperature in there.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2014, 04:16:06 AM »
I use swing tops, so baking them could melt the rubber gasket...so StarSan for me.  Also I have the bottle tree with the bottle spritzer attachment, so it's easy peasy.   Only gushers now come from overcarbing.
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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2014, 04:30:57 AM »

I use swing tops, so baking them could melt the rubber gasket...so StarSan for me.  Also I have the bottle tree with the bottle spritzer attachment, so it's easy peasy.   Only gushers now come from overcarbing.

Maybe try removing the rubber gasket before sanitizing, sanitize both the bottle and gasket, then reassemble just before bottling.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2014, 07:29:54 AM »
If you watch art glass being made you will see the last step is that it goes into an annealing oven. Those start at the working temps, and the glass is slowly brought to ambient over a day or two. If not it will be brittle.

Glass bottles were made from glass that was a hot glowing slug of material. They are cooled slowly.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2014, 01:01:08 AM »
They really get that hot?  I wouldn't have guessed that.  I do think that there is a big difference between the bottles used in the US and the ones used in Canada.  We've had beer bottle re-use by the big breweries for years, I'm unsure if the US does the same but I think our bottles are thicker and they seem thicker when I look at them in order to be re-used more frequently.

The theory is that the repeated heating and cooling induces stress fractures.  No personal experience, but that's what I've heard from people who do it.

I have been baking my bottles at 250 for an hour for 2 years now. No issues yet.
You know this is not sufficient time or temperature for sterilization?  I'm not saying it's not doing anything, just that it might not be as effective as you think.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2014, 02:54:08 PM »
Another question: Would the beer's gravity be an indication of whether or not there was an infection? My thoughts are if the gravity drops significantly it means there is probably some bacteria or wild yeast eating the dextrines that would still be there if the issue was priming sugar related.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2014, 02:57:54 PM »
Maybe that's more of an issue when using dry heat in an oven, where you generally use higher temps for a longer period of time. I'm thinking that if the "Sanitize" setting on dishwashers lead to weakened glass, there'd be some kind of cautions on the machine. It would just take one glass baby bottle breaking in some kids face for some serious law suits.

I always understood this to be one of the main reasons crystal should not go through a dishwasher, but be washed by hand.  Crystal glasses, being thinner, may be more susceptible to cracking/weakening from heat.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2014, 03:48:36 PM »
Another question: Would the beer's gravity be an indication of whether or not there was an infection? My thoughts are if the gravity drops significantly it means there is probably some bacteria or wild yeast eating the dextrines that would still be there if the issue was priming sugar related.

Yes that's an indication of infection. assuming a stable gravity was reached before bottling. And assuming that gravity was the true terminal for that wort and yeast

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Gusher Infection?
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2014, 08:26:59 PM »
Another question: Would the beer's gravity be an indication of whether or not there was an infection? My thoughts are if the gravity drops significantly it means there is probably some bacteria or wild yeast eating the dextrines that would still be there if the issue was priming sugar related.

Yes that's an indication of infection. assuming a stable gravity was reached before bottling. And assuming that gravity was the true terminal for that wort and yeast

Makes sense. I waited 20 days to bottle and it was a session beer (1.045 OG, 1.012 at bottling, 1.004 now) so I assume the yeast was done working after 3 weeks. I've been thinking in my head what could be infected.

I've now brewed two gusher pale ale batches but in between the two was a successful IPA. The IPA was for a contest so I suppose I was more attentive to my sanitation. As I currently have 8 gallons of imperial stout sitting in the same bucket I used to bottle I'm a bit worried. But I suppose if it was the bucket that was infected the IPA would have been infected as well. I'm hoping that swapping out my tubing and cleaning/sanitizing the hell out of all my bottles & bottling equipment with a fresh batch of star-san solution, my stout will be saved.