[ram5ey]

Keep up the good and tasty work.

[michaelkklaser]

This week, we made an American Pale Ale with experimental hop varieties, "ADHA 529" & "Experimental Pine Fruit". The results were OUTSTANDING!! Love these hops, hope they get named and sold.
Check out the full article: http://www.klaserhausen.com/receiver-function/
Recipe
10 lbs. American 2-row pale malt 0.25 lbs. 10L crystal malt
Mash @ 152 for 60 min (single infusion @ 1.5 qt/lb) sparge with 5 gal Boil for 60 minutes
4mL CO2 hop extract boil for 60 minutes 1 oz each ADHA 529 & Experimental Pine Fruit @ flameout, steep 10 min
WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast, 1500 mL starter
Dry hop 1 oz each ADHA 529 & Experimental Pine for 3 days
OG: 1.048 FG: 1.011 ABV: 5.0% IBU: 43 Color: 5.2 SRM
Fermentation Temperature: 65-68°

[factory]

Very cool.  I too am on a VERY long journey to brew every style in the BJCP Guidelines.  I have brewed 10 styles so far.  I'll be looking forward to reading your updates.

[michaelkklaser]

This week, we brewed an American Stout using the cold extract method for all the dark grains.  We ended up with something a bit closer to a Porter, and didn't account for the dilution of the extracts in the final wort.

http://www.klaserhausen.com/cabin-fever/

Before brewing, we compared hot steep grains to cold steeped grains. We tasted both raw wort, and wort mixed in Guinness, and we preferred the cold steep overwhelmingly in all cases. The cold steep was less astringent and had a deeper, more rounded roast/chocolate/coffee flavor. We steeped at a ratio of 1 qt/lb.
We cold steeped all the dark grains in this beer at room temperature, overnight.

11 lbs. US Pale 2-row
1 lb. White Wheat
1 lb. Roasted Barley (cold steeped overnight)
0.5 lb. Black Patent Malt (cold steeped overnight)
0.5 lb. Chocolate 6-row malt (cold steeped overnight)
Mash at 122° for 20 min, raise to 153° for 40 min, mashout at 168° for 10 min
Boil for 60 minutes
7.5mL CO2 hop extract boil for 60 minutes
1 oz each of Calypso (15.6% AA) and Belma (9.8% AA) @ flameout, steep 10 min
WLP090 San Diego Super, 850mL starter
OG: 1.052 FG: 1.014 ABV: 5.0% IBU: 59 Color: 41 SRM (calculated, observed closer to ~25 SRM)
Fermentation Temp: 65-68°
The resulting beer was a little diluted, as we failed to correct for the additional volume of all the cold steep extracts added late in the boil, which diluted the beer, making it a bit thinner and paler (though still technically dark enough) than we wanted it. I wonder also if my hop utilization was all a little thrown off by adding almost 1.5 gallons of extra water at the end of the boil.... All in all, a good technique as long as you adjust accordingly.

[morticaixavier]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

[michaelkklaser]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

^This.  Brew and learn I guess.  Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!

[HoosierBrew]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

^This.  Brew and learn I guess.  Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!

+2.  A PITA IMO. I'm back to mashing it all together and liking the results. Whereas you have to double your cold steep amounts, you can adjust downward mashing the grains (if need be).

[morticaixavier]

I really liked the effect. It wasn't that much more trouble. I'd do it again.

[denny]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

^This.  Brew and learn I guess.  Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!

+2.  A PITA IMO. I'm back to mashing it all together and liking the results. Whereas you have to double your cold steep amounts, you can adjust downward mashing the grains (if need be).

I completely agree.  I did the cold steeping thing maybe a half dozen times before deciding it was too much trouble for too little benefit.  I'm doing water treatment anyway, so that takes care of the issues that cold steeping is supposed to solve.  If I want color without roastiness these days, I use Sinamar.

[michaelkklaser]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

^This.  Brew and learn I guess.  Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!

+2.  A PITA IMO. I'm back to mashing it all together and liking the results. Whereas you have to double your cold steep amounts, you can adjust downward mashing the grains (if need be).

I completely agree.  I did the cold steeping thing maybe a half dozen times before deciding it was too much trouble for too little benefit.  I'm doing water treatment anyway, so that takes care of the issues that cold steeping is supposed to solve.  If I want color without roastiness these days, I use Sinamar.

Especially when you factor in a brew session of 6+ hours from start to completely cleaned up, the idea of dealing with cold steep becomes VERY unappealing.  AND, I recently brewed a RIS (http://www.klaserhausen.com/mom-and-dad/) that had a large % of dark/roasted malts, mashed traditionally, which The Stig said was "very well done" and didn't note any astringency.

I think Denny's correct, the real underlying issue is water chemistry, and cold steeping is just a way to avoid the issue without dealing with it.  IMO having mash & sparge pH under control will keep astringency at bay, even in the darkest and most robust beers.  In fact, REALLY good brewers can probably use water chemistry to get the exact roast character they want in their beers, as some do like a stout with a little harsher roast character.

[HoosierBrew]

Yeah cold stepping is great but you have to use about twice as much roast grain to get the same effect

^This.  Brew and learn I guess.  Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!

+2.  A PITA IMO. I'm back to mashing it all together and liking the results. Whereas you have to double your cold steep amounts, you can adjust downward mashing the grains (if need be).

I completely agree.  I did the cold steeping thing maybe a half dozen times before deciding it was too much trouble for too little benefit.  I'm doing water treatment anyway, so that takes care of the issues that cold steeping is supposed to solve.  If I want color without roastiness these days, I use Sinamar.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna add, Denny. As soon as I figured out to shoot for a 5.5 pH with dark beers, that took care of the issues for me. I prefer a good amount of roastiness, but I was getting more of the acrid stuff before I got a handle on pH - so for me it was a pH issue and not a 'mashing the dark grains issue'.

[morticaixavier]

I will reserve judgment until I have tried it both ways a couple times. I have no problem controlling my mash chemistry. I still was getting a hint of ash on recipes with a lot of roast grain. Not astringency but a burnt ashy note that was unpleasant. This was reduced or eliminated by the cold steep.

Additionally, I think it took an extra ten minutes tops to mill the gain and drop it in a bucket of water.

[denny]

I will reserve judgment until I have tried it both ways a couple times. I have no problem controlling my mash chemistry. I still was getting a hint of ash on recipes with a lot of roast grain. Not astringency but a burnt ashy note that was unpleasant. This was reduced or eliminated by the cold steep.

Additionally, I think it took an extra ten minutes tops to mill the gain and drop it in a bucket of water.

As always, do whatever gets you the results you;re looking for.  In my case, I found I was able to get those results without the cold steeping.

[michaelkklaser]

http://www.klaserhausen.com/pretension/
This week, we made a Biere de Garde that was kind of a Biere de Meh. See the link for the full story, recipe and tasting notes below.

Recipe
12 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lb. U.S. Vienna Malt (it’s all I had access to at the time, oh well)
1 lb. Belgian Caramunich Malt
0.75 lb. Belgian Aromatic Malt
0.5 lb. Belgian Special B
Mash @ 147° for 90 min (single infusion, 1.5 qt/lb). Sparge with 3.9 gal
Boil for 90 minutes
1 oz Crystal (6% AA) boil for 60 minutes
1 oz Crystal boil for 10 minutes
WLP515, 1200mL starter
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.013
ABV: 7.8%
IBU: 22.5
SRM: 13
Fermentation Temp: 64-70° (lagered @ 36° for 3 weeks)

The Stig's Tasting notes:
Aroma: Fairly clean malt character with notes of quince paste, toast, brown sugar, and toffee. Little to no hop aroma.
Appearance: Clear amber, about 11 degrees SRM. Off-white head with fine bead. Barely any head retention, no lacing, with only a faint, spotty film of foam persisting.
Flavor: Candied, fruity, subtly herbal with flavors of toffee, baked apple, and a hint of sage. Negligible perceived bitterness. Clean malt sweetness without being bread-like. A bit cloying.
Mouthfeel: Full and round, but lacking structure (could use more grain-like tannin, husk quality). Low carbonation and not quite as attenuated as the style should be. ABV is very well disguised with barely any warmth in the finish.
Overall: Really pleasant and technically well within style parameters. Personally I would prefer a drier, more attenuated, and rustic beer for this style. Could use more earthy hop and grain character, and more carbonation or acidity to break up malt sweetness. No overt or obvious flaws.

I think I would us a more earthy hop, mash at 145° and maybe even add a 1/2lb of simple sugar if I made this beer again.

[erockrph]

http://www.klaserhausen.com/pretension/
This week, we made a Biere de Garde that was kind of a Biere de Meh. See the link for the full story, recipe and tasting notes below.

Recipe
12 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lb. U.S. Vienna Malt (it’s all I had access to at the time, oh well)
1 lb. Belgian Caramunich Malt
0.75 lb. Belgian Aromatic Malt
0.5 lb. Belgian Special B
Mash @ 147° for 90 min (single infusion, 1.5 qt/lb). Sparge with 3.9 gal
Boil for 90 minutes
1 oz Crystal (6% AA) boil for 60 minutes
1 oz Crystal boil for 10 minutes
WLP515, 1200mL starter
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.013
ABV: 7.8%
IBU: 22.5
SRM: 13
Fermentation Temp: 64-70° (lagered @ 36° for 3 weeks)

The Stig's Tasting notes:
Aroma: Fairly clean malt character with notes of quince paste, toast, brown sugar, and toffee. Little to no hop aroma.
Appearance: Clear amber, about 11 degrees SRM. Off-white head with fine bead. Barely any head retention, no lacing, with only a faint, spotty film of foam persisting.
Flavor: Candied, fruity, subtly herbal with flavors of toffee, baked apple, and a hint of sage. Negligible perceived bitterness. Clean malt sweetness without being bread-like. A bit cloying.
Mouthfeel: Full and round, but lacking structure (could use more grain-like tannin, husk quality). Low carbonation and not quite as attenuated as the style should be. ABV is very well disguised with barely any warmth in the finish.
Overall: Really pleasant and technically well within style parameters. Personally I would prefer a drier, more attenuated, and rustic beer for this style. Could use more earthy hop and grain character, and more carbonation or acidity to break up malt sweetness. No overt or obvious flaws.

I think I would us a more earthy hop, mash at 145° and maybe even add a 1/2lb of simple sugar if I made this beer again.

A) Styrian Goldings would probably be a good choice of hop for this.

B) I don't know how much drier a mash at 145 vs 147 is going to be

C) If you're looking for more of a husky, grainy note try swapping your Belgian Pils for Floor-Malted Bo Pils malt. I find that I get quite a bit of that husky/grainy thing from it.

D) Try shooting for a mash pH on the low end (5.3ish) if you're not doing that already