[Joe Sr.]

I need to brew an IPA for an upcoming celebration.  I don't typically brew IPAs, but I've been asked for one.

I thought I might do a Pliny clone, but some of the recipes I've seen call for hop extract which I've never used.

For those of you who have, is it necessary?  Can I brew something close without it?

I may go with something a bit smaller than Pliny or I may do two batches.  Not sure.  Still thinking.

[Stevie]

Most of the older/original Pliny clones call for Columbus for bittering.

[theDarkSide]

I've done the original a few times with great results.  From start to finish, it ends up being about 14oz of hops!!

[HoosierBrew]

I've never used hop extracts and made some good Pliny clones.  +1 to Columbus.

[Joe Sr.]

Good to know.  I'll skip the hop extract.

[AmandaK]

I only use hop extract in our Pliny clone. Otherwise, it is just too vegetal.

The only time we were able to enter it in a comp (usually just drink it all), it nabbed a third place.

[Joe Sr.]

Otherwise, it is just too vegetal.

Hadn't thought of that.  Now you've got me thinking again.

Is it easy to over do the hop extract?

[Joe Sr.]

I only use hop extract in our Pliny clone. Otherwise, it is just too vegetal.

The only time we were able to enter it in a comp (usually just drink it all), it nabbed a third place.

Amanda,

A couple clarifications, please.  You use only hop extract in your Pliny clone, as in no pellets or whole hops?  Or, your Pliny clone is the only beer in which you use extract?

Extract looks a tad pricey at $3 for 5ml.  The Bertus Brewery recipe calls for 60ml of extract.  But I haven't looked at other recipes yet to see the sheer volume of hops.

Regardless, this will not be a cheap beer for sure.

[HoosierBrew]

Bertus uses the extract only @ 90 and 45, hops the rest of the way. That is a LOT of extract, ie.  $$   . I brewed this same recipe with Columbus for bittering and loved it.]


http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/08/pliny-elder-clone-30.html

[Joe Sr.]

You replaced the 60ml of extract with Columbus hops?

The IBUs seem a bit off to me, too.  Or I'm missing something.

HopShot says that 1ml in 5 gallons for 60 minutes = 10 IBU.  50ml for 90 minutes starts to sound like a crazy amount of bitterness.

Like I said in the OP, I do not brew IPAs so I'm treading into unknown territory...

[HoosierBrew]

You replaced the 60ml of extract with Columbus hops?

The IBUs seem a bit off to me, too.  Or I'm missing something.

HopShot says that 1ml in 5 gallons for 60 minutes = 10 IBU.  50ml for 90 minutes starts to sound like a crazy amount of bitterness.

Like I said in the OP, I do not brew IPAs so I'm treading into unknown territory...

Yep, I added the actual hop additions into my software, noted the IBUs from them, and added enough Columbus for bittering to bring IBUs up to ~ 100.  Bertus uses the extract to model what RR does - using extract to reduce hop matter and (possible) vegetal character from using a lot of hops. Columbus worked great for me.

[denny]

You replaced the 60ml of extract with Columbus hops?

The IBUs seem a bit off to me, too.  Or I'm missing something.

HopShot says that 1ml in 5 gallons for 60 minutes = 10 IBU.  50ml for 90 minutes starts to sound like a crazy amount of bitterness.

Like I said in the OP, I do not brew IPAs so I'm treading into unknown territory...

Keep in mind that Hopshot is different from the "normal" isomerized hop extract.  Hopshot is not isomerized so you have to use a lot more than regular extract.

[denny]

You replaced the 60ml of extract with Columbus hops?

The IBUs seem a bit off to me, too.  Or I'm missing something.

HopShot says that 1ml in 5 gallons for 60 minutes = 10 IBU.  50ml for 90 minutes starts to sound like a crazy amount of bitterness.

Like I said in the OP, I do not brew IPAs so I'm treading into unknown territory...

Yeah, I'd think so.  Columbus is high enough AA that you don't need a lot to get to 100 IBU.  FWIW, the toned down version of Hop Stoopid I just made measured about 270 IBU and it was all whole hops in one batch and pellets in another.  No vegetal taste from it.

Yep, I added the actual hop additions into my software, noted the IBUs from them, and added enough Columbus for bittering to bring IBUs up to ~ 100.  Bertus uses the extract to model what RR does - using extract to reduce hop matter and (possible) vegetal character from using a lot of hops. Columbus worked great for me.

[Joe Sr.]

The recipes I'm finding (purportedly from the August 2009 Zymurgy, though I'll need to verify) that use Columbus don't have a crazy amount of hops.

I think I'll go that route, rather than step deeper into unknown territory with extract.

Keep in mind that Hopshot is different from the "normal" isomerized hop extract.  Hopshot is not isomerized so you have to use a lot more than regular extract.

The two products I'm seeing are Hopshot and Isohop.  They both seem to call for approximately the same volume (1ml) of extract to add 10ml to 5 gallons.  The Isohop page at More Beer actually calls for 1.25ml.  It seems like Isohop is used after fermentation while Hopshot is used during the boil.

[AmandaK]

I use two vials of HopShot from Northern Brewer (only place I can find it) in place of the 60 minute addition for a 5.5g batch. I also use real Simcoe at 45 minutes and a bunch of hops in later additions. Apologies that my original post came off as confusing.

Yes, it isn't cheap, but I'd rather not lose a crap ton of wort to 3-4oz of bittering hops.