Author Topic: Frustrating Low finial beer PH  (Read 492 times)

Offline quattlebaum

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Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« on: May 17, 2014, 05:00:19 AM »
I cont to have frustrating results with finial beer PH. Is there any reason that this should have dropped by so much?
95% optic malt
5 % C120
No sparge
OG 1.042
FG 1.010
Edinburgh Ale WLP028
Mash 149F
Room temp PH with calibrated meter 2 points.
Post boil PH was 5.6  Finial PH was 4 at room temp

Water was Ca 100ppm, Mg 8, NA 14, Sulfate 149, Chloride 40, Bicarb 114, Alkalinity 94, RA 18, Hardness 284

I am was intentionally trying  make my finial beer PH around 4.5. I assume i need to brew the exact same beer with the exact same ingredients to nail it down. I even pushed the water chemistry higher than normal. I have never used this yeast though. Any thoughts would help

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 05:25:41 AM »
  Oops! thats a transfer hose filled with star that i left in the bucket :( that could have dropped it a bit more than i would have liked. http://wildhops.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=192461296
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 05:28:00 AM by quattlebaum »

Offline wingnut

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 06:52:09 AM »
In my experience, the more yeast re-production during fermentation, the trend toward lower beer PH.   iee. Higher initial pitch rates tends to keep beer ph higher then lower pitching rates.

Obviously, there are a great many other factors in play as well, but pitching rates are one of the variables.  Salts, acids, malt buffering and ph, etc are bigger factors that set up the initial conditions.   

I am curiouse why you are targeting such a high ph?   4.5 seems high for a finished beer.

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Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2014, 09:29:36 AM »


I am curiouse why you are targeting such a high ph?   4.5 seems high for a finished beer.

I tend to like my malty styles to finish higher i feel it gives me a better malt flavor/profile. The whole finish beer PH thing has been interesting for me lately a buddy and myself have been testing finished PH of some commercial examples and they have all been really high. For instance pakos ipa 4.85 and ballest point double 4.63. Its just interesting and i feel like some beers really should have a higher PH than most recommend. They tend to taste better to me

Offline wingnut

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2014, 11:24:12 AM »
Interesting.... I have been taking beers down the PH scale to "brighten" flavors... I wonder which direction is the right way? 

Sounds like you are working more in the IPA relm, while I have been tinkering with the Eurpoean Lagers and English ales...(ie maltier beers with lower hop presence).

I have been moving toward 4.2/4.0 range and like what it does in those beers.

It would be interesting to brew a beer on the high side, and dose it a bit with acid to lower it and see where it takes it.  Maybe I will try to keep the PH higher on the next batch and try that idea. 


I also wonder if malt vs hop beers is a big difference on what the target is...

Good luck!
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Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 12:33:31 PM »
Ya it is fun to mess with me and my buddy are going to attempt the same batches and make the PHs different to do side by sides to truly determine what we prefer on the finial PH of different styles. Ill report back we are in the process

Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2014, 12:42:56 PM »
So are you guys actually adjusting your kettle pH lower with acid to hit what you want, or just checking the finished beer pH for reference ?  I've never bothered with checking my finished beers. I've always felt that if I hit my target mash pH accurately, the finished beer pH would be as it should be.. Just trying to get my head around this.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 06:20:55 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2014, 01:04:36 PM »
So are you guys actually adjusting your kettle pH lower with acid to hit what you want, or just checking the finished beer pH for reference ?  I've never bothered with checking my finished beers. I've always felt that if I hit my target mash pH accurately that all is good, with pretty consistent results. Just trying to get my head around this.
I am not adjusting my kettle PH. Trying to predict the finial beer PH by adjusting my mash PH and alkalinity with lactic acid.  Challenge for me is thats all yeast seem to have there own "buffering" capacity. Unless i brew the same beer over and over i really have a hard time predicting my finial PH. I think it is ideal for the PH to drop about 1 point from post boil PH however i have be struggling with this.

Offline wingnut

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Re: Frustrating Low finial beer PH
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2014, 03:05:11 PM »
For me... I started just targeting the mash PH... and targeting lower and higher mash PH (5.0 to 5.7).

After doing some reading research, I found  indications that lower mash kettle PH would have clearer beers, and lower boil PH would not darken as fast while boiling. Lower mashing, however, had efficiency issues.   Lastly,  I also found that commercial lager I dring... would come in around 4.1 to 4.3, and my beers would be a bit higher than that. 

So... dropping the PH in the kettle was needed to drop PH down past 4.5 in the recipies I have been brewing.  I have liked the results, and the competitons scores suport a slight improvement as well.
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