Author Topic: Who coined the term flameout?  (Read 1380 times)

Offline S. cerevisiae

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Who coined the term flameout?
« on: June 01, 2014, 11:35:24 AM »
Like "fly sparging," the term "flameout" appears to have entered the amateur brewing lexicon in the last ten years.  Who coined the term?  I still use the term "knockout." 

Another thing that has occurred in the amateur brewing community is the generalization of the term "dough-in" as a replacement for the commonly-accepted term "mash-in."  A dough-in is a specific type of mash-in.  The term derives from the consistency of a mash that is made with a sub-quart per pound hot liquor to grist ratio.  Unlike a typical mash-in where the grist is mixed into the hot liquor or mixed with the hot liquor on the way to the tun, a dough-in involves sprinkling the grist with water and kneading it until the grain can hold no more hot liquor.

I know that language evolves; however, I often feel like I am speaking a different language than those who have entered the hobby in the last ten years.  I remember the first time that I encountered the term "fly sparging" while listening to someone discuss mashing at my LHBS after returning to the hobby.  After looking term up, I said to myself, "Oh, he meant sparging."
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Offline denny

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 11:51:14 AM »
I think I first heard it in Noonan's NBLB.  If I remember correctly that's where it was, that's much older than 10 years.
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Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 01:14:01 PM »
That's interesting because the term does not appear in the original version of the book.  The term is undoubtedly more than ten years old, but its general acceptance as a replacement for knockout and "time 0" in the amateur brewing community appears to correlate with the rise of Internet brewing forums. The oldest posting that I have found that contains the term flameout (actually "flame-out") was made on rec.crafts.brewing in 2001 (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.crafts.brewing/flameout$20|sort:date/rec.crafts.brewing/2GEv2ojv3bo/HXzacpFG-xwJ).  I am going to see if I can find a pre-2001 Home Brew Digest (HBD) that contains the term.   It will be interesting to discover who coined the term.
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Offline ccfoo242

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 01:23:51 PM »
I bet it was someone who likes jets or rockets or flies jets or rockets or someone who saw a documentary about jets or rockets who coined the term as relating to homebrew.


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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 02:05:37 PM »
Did knockout really mean the end of the boil at some point? As opposed to referring to the actual process of knocking out?
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Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 02:48:42 PM »
Yes, "knockout" (knock-out) was synonymous with "time 0" when I first started brewing in the early nineties (as in knocking out the flame).  At that point in time, the process of draining/pumping the wort out of one's kettle was referred to as "casting out."   If you read John Palmer's book (which was written in the nineties), you will see that he uses the term as a synonym for "time 0."

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When hops are added during the final minutes of the boil, less of the aromatic oils are lost to evaporation and more hop aroma is retained. One or more varieties of hop may be used, in amounts varying from 1/4 - 4 oz, depending on the character desired. A total of 1-2 oz. is typical. Finishing hop additions are typically 15 minutes or less before the end of the boil, or are added "at knockout" (when the heat is turned off) and allowed to steep ten minutes before the wort is cooled. In some setups, a "hopback" is used - the hot wort is run through a small chamber full of fresh hops before the wort enters a heat exchanger or chiller."


While the term "knockout" was borrowed from the professional brewing lexicon, the term "flameout" appears to be a 100% amateur brewing term.  I have yet to see it printed in any professional brewing textbook.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 03:01:39 PM by S. cerevisiae »
Mark

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Offline euge

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 02:57:32 PM »
I grew up with "flameout" but surely it has something to do with the burners many of us use. To me that makes more sense as in turning the flame off.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 03:00:22 PM »
How long have you been brewing?
Mark

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2014, 03:32:58 PM »
I remember seeing 'knockout' in the early 90's , but I remember seeing 'flameout' not long after. I'll try to find an old reference in my brewing literature to post. I always took 'flameout' to be an obvious synonym - hops added 'when the FLAME goes OUT'.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 03:44:54 PM »
I hope you guys figure it out quick because ive got about 6 minutes left in my boil and now I don't know if I should flame out or knock out.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 03:55:22 PM »
I hope you guys figure it out quick because ive got about 6 minutes left in my boil and now I don't know if I should flame out or knock out.

:)    Maybe a 'knockflameout' addition would cover it.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 04:17:50 PM »
I just called it time to turn off my propane stove burner, or TTTOMPSB to keep it simple and catchy.

Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 04:24:04 PM »
I just called it time to turn off my propane stove burner, or TTTOMPSB to keep it simple and catchy.

You're so trendy!  ;D
Mark

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 04:59:58 PM »
I have to wonder about using the term knock out for a term indicating the end of a boil. To me, knock out is when you knock the plug out of the tun and start the run off. Flame out is very descriptive, although I now need to use the term 'power off'.
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Offline euge

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Re: Who coined the term flameout?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 05:51:00 PM »
How long have you been brewing?

Well, since 2007. That's when I grew up...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman