[klickitat jim]

So is this what I should do?

Here's my rough draft

Auld MacDonald's Farmhouse
6lbs German Pils
6lbs Vienna
2lbs Munich 20L
1/2 lb C80
1/2 lb Spec B
160º
90 min boil
28g EKG at 60
WY1728 ar 65º
At terminal gravity rack to polycarbonate bucket and pitch Brett Lambic and Lacto
Add cherries after a month
Store in house ~12 months
Keg and cross fingers

[morticaixavier]

So is this what I should do?

Here's my rough draft

Auld MacDonald's Farmhouse
6lbs German Pils
6lbs Vienna
2lbs Munich 20L
1/2 lb C80
1/2 lb Spec B
160º
90 min boil
28g EKG at 60
WY1728 ar 65º
At terminal gravity rack to polycarbonate bucket and pitch Brett Lambic and Lacto
Add cherries after a month
Store in house ~12 months
Keg and cross fingers

I'd skip the 1728, pitch the roselare other than that it looks good.

[Kinetic]

I'd delete the hops.  You won't miss them and they could inhibit the growth of lacto.

Fermenting with sacc first is optional if you are using Roeselare and will produce a less sour and less funky result, but it will still be a good beer.

[klickitat jim]

O
I'm seeing where this is headed. One last question.  How picky is Roeselare temperature wise? If I started it in my fermentation chamber at 68 for a month, then pitch cherries and move it to the house, would that be ok?

[morticaixavier]

O
I'm seeing where this is headed. One last question.  How picky is Roeselare temperature wise? If I started it in my fermentation chamber at 68 for a month, then pitch cherries and move it to the house, would that be ok?

should be fine. I aged mine at ambient over a summer here which means high of ~114 low of ~55. Higher temps help the lacto thrive as well.

[Kinetic]

Your initial temperature sounds good.  After the first month, up to 80-85 would be good, but below 70 would be less than ideal for the lacto and pedio.  I don't get any harsh fusels with these temps and keep all the sacc and bugs in the primary fermenter for the entire fermentation.

If you prefer to secondary, raise the temp into the 80s after the first month for an additional month to get as much of the lacto and pedio in suspension as possible.  When you transfer to the secondary, you will leave behind some brett, pedio and lacto.  How much you leave behind is unknown.  This is why I don't secondary with Roeselare even with a fruit addition.  I want all the bugs chewing for the duration.

Most people secondary with Roeselare.  Perhaps this is why many people complain that Roeselare doesn't make a sour beer on the first pitch?  I can't say for sure, but that is my suspicion.  If you don't secondary, the beer will definitely be sour and ready to drink in less than a year.             

[ynotbrusum]

Some great talks at the NHC to listen to, Jim, when they get posted.  Michael Tonsmeire said you can make a starter with Roselaere or you can just go with US-05, together with the dregs from some commercial sours that you like.  Essentially, the Brett, Lacto and Pedio will be sitting long enough that they will do the work.  If you are concerned with not having enough for them to eat, you can add some malto dextrine or lactose upfront to specifically feed the bugs without worrying about the aggressiveness of the Sacc yeast.

I haven't read his book, but I got it at a discount at the NHC and it is available at a discount through the AHA, I believe.

[klickitat jim]

Right on, thanks again. Its looking like there are many ways to skin this cat.

[hopfenundmalz]

One trick for pseudo Lambics is to mix in some wheat flour near the end of boil.

Keep the hops at 10 IBU or less.

If you want more funk from Brett use phenolic yeast like 3787. Roselare has 2 Belgian wheat/wit yeast strains.

[klickitat jim]

What does that trick do?

[brewinhard]

The brett will actually convert some of the esters/phenols and acids produced by the saccharomyces strain that the initial beer is fermented with changing them into more funky compounds that we all know and love in these wild styles. 

[hopfenundmalz]

The brett will actually convert some of the esters/phenols and acids produced by the saccharomyces strain that the initial beer is fermented with changing them into more funky compounds that we all know and love in these wild styles.

Greg Doss did a talk a a few years back that had samples. Clean yeast strains gave insipid funky beers, 3878 was wonderful as the primary yeast. The talk is on the conference page somewhere.

What does that trick do?

It adds starch for the bugs and critters. Easier than the traditional turbid mash by a bunch.

[klickitat jim]

Cool thanks. All I'll research the Doss talk

[hopfenundmalz]

Cool thanks. All I'll research the Doss talk

This one.
http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/GregDoss_BrettBrewing.pdf

[klickitat jim]

I assume it was a great presentation but the bullet point slide show by itself,  not so much