Author Topic: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion  (Read 4428 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2014, 07:32:53 AM »
I actually appreciate the guidelines, I was being a turd butt. It seems to me that the BJCP exists to provide educated judges who all speak the same language for the most part, as well as a somewhat standardized and comprehensive chart of beer styles for competitions to use if they want. If it comes off like they are ruling over the beer world then they are being misunderstood. In fact they seem to be going out of their way to accommodate a lot of new and experimental beers.

I think the program does not exist to rule out beers, and that the individual judge is still encouraged to reward the best tasting beer.

Offline dbeechum

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2014, 07:53:43 AM »
I know I've made jokes about the procrustean nature of the BJCP*, but in truth, that's kinda the point right?

"Here's a target - see if you can hit it" is the challenge of a BJCP contest. It doesn't matter if I've made the best shot because it was the longest or most complicated or most interesting, just how close to center I hit.

We can sure as hell disagree as to whether or not the target is correct for the particular name given to a set of parameters, but a "best beer" competition is a whole nother beast than a "best beer by style" competition

* - mostly so I can drop "procrustean". It is a favorite of mine.
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Offline denny

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2014, 08:07:21 AM »
Scoff if you will, but the 1970s Maltose Falcons guidelines make just as much sense as the BJCP guidelines do.

I know and hear the argument about judging.  But 99.9% of the drinking public care nothing about these guidelines.  I know a few professional brewers, and none of them care a twit about whether any recipe they are formulating is within some style guidelines.  They all tell me that if the public likes it, and they decide to submit it to a festival competition, then they will figure out what category they want to submit it in.

Which is the most important criterion:  Does the public want to drink it?  If yes, style be damned.

I know I am beating a dead horse, and that most of the forum disagree with me, but having been a non-BJCP judge for 10+ years for both craft beer and home brew competitions, I still believe the best tasting beer is the best tasting beer, regardless of style guidelines. A lot of the craft beer judging was done in accordance with the craft beer judging style guide, posted earlier.

The last homebrew competition I judged, I was paired with the head brewer from a local (and excellent) microbrewery.  It was a BJCP (sanctioned?) event.  We were judging using the BJCP score sheet, and were agreeing with a point or two for the entire flight, and all was fine.  Then, the second to last on the flight, we came across a delicious beer that I scored low but Mr. Professional Craft Brewer scored high.  The difference?  Although it was delicious, it was out of style.

I explained to the brewer why we had to score it lower, because it was out of style, and he agreed and lowered his score.  But he asked me, "Why?"

And I did not have a good answer, so I suggested to him that may be we were not cut out to be BJCP judges.

He agreed.

So there you have it.

Although I generally agree with most of the points yo made, the "why?": is easy...becasue that's the way BJCP contests are set up.  As silly as it may seem to you, the guidelines provide a level playing field to compare apples to apples (or stouts to stouts).  If you're trying to compare a pale ale to a pilsner, it could come down ti which style you prefer, not which is the better made beer.  Your criteria get filled by something like "People's Choice", which, at least around here, is a pretty common component of a comp.  That's where the winner is simply the best damn beer.
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Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2014, 08:28:25 AM »
I just competed in a competition at a local brewery.  They had 16 of us brew anything we wanted (some limitations) then 4 competed at a time. Beers were released.  First keg to finish got 10 points then a scale for which kegs finished next. The other half of the points was from scoring from whoever drank tasters or pints.

So the whole contest was really people's choice.

The winners were the ones who did the best job getting friends to show up.

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Offline dkfick

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2014, 09:13:40 AM »
I just competed in a competition at a local brewery.  They had 16 of us brew anything we wanted (some limitations) then 4 competed at a time. Beers were released.  First keg to finish got 10 points then a scale for which kegs finished next. The other half of the points was from scoring from whoever drank tasters or pints.

So the whole contest was really people's choice.

The winners were the ones who did the best job getting friends to show up.
So half the points were determined solely by the name/style designation you decided to put on the board (the stuff that makes people want to try a beer)
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Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2014, 09:18:58 AM »
I just competed in a competition at a local brewery.  They had 16 of us brew anything we wanted (some limitations) then 4 competed at a time. Beers were released.  First keg to finish got 10 points then a scale for which kegs finished next. The other half of the points was from scoring from whoever drank tasters or pints.

So the whole contest was really people's choice.

The winners were the ones who did the best job getting friends to show up.
So half the points were determined solely by the name/style designation you decided to put on the board (the stuff that makes people want to try a beer)
Well.  It's a small place and most people were starting with a tasting flight.  I took second in my flight. A passion fruit pale ale beat my agave wheat.  Both kegs gone in about 3 hours. There was also a dead guy clone and a Saison in my flight and an ipa.  (18 total in contest, flights if 4-5)

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2014, 09:22:30 AM »
That would be a cool contest if the popularity was removed. Perhaps don't tell the drinkers which beer is who's or even that its a contest. First one gone would be the first one gone. Or at least enjoyed by the fastest drinkers.

Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2014, 09:36:18 AM »
- Charles

Offline dkfick

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2014, 09:38:51 AM »
That would be a cool contest if the popularity was removed. Perhaps don't tell the drinkers which beer is who's or even that its a contest. First one gone would be the first one gone. Or at least enjoyed by the fastest drinkers.
Bell's does a homebrew competition that is on a hedonic scale.  They give everyone 5 gallons of what is suppose to be Michigan 2-row malt and then you brew whatever you want and the brewers and staff at Bell's decide which one they like the best... I think every year they have gone with some sort of IPA... Last years wort was like 100% munich wort... I should have tasted it before brewing with it... but I ended up with a munichy irish red... it was weird but not altogether bad lol.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2014, 04:12:16 PM »

If you're not going to have styles.  You shouldn't have names either. Choice would be taps 1-5.
They all have beer in them

Now I am screwed. I have 6 taps.


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Offline ranchovillabrew

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2014, 05:36:28 PM »

If you're not going to have styles.  You shouldn't have names either. Choice would be taps 1-5.
They all have beer in them

Now I am screwed. I have 6 taps.
blend the other 5?
- Charles

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2014, 06:18:06 PM »


If you're not going to have styles.  You shouldn't have names either. Choice would be taps 1-5.
They all have beer in them

Now I am screwed. I have 6 taps.
blend the other 5?
Now that is an idea.


Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer