Author Topic: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion  (Read 3001 times)

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4785
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2014, 07:08:11 AM »
I've seen some living nightmares that were pretty bad. I'm tempted to describe a few, but fear that even their mere mention would be devastating. But none of them even come close to the pure living hell that ordering an uncategorized beer would be.

Online Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3616
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2014, 08:56:09 AM »
Without categorizing beers it would be an absolute nightmare to even order a beer.
You couldn't even call it beer - that's a category.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2014, 09:30:20 AM »
Not sure if it was mentioned but on a similar path the GABF style guide is quite extensive.

http://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/the-competition/beer-styles/
Ron Price

Offline chumley

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2014, 04:30:24 PM »
A nightmare to order a beer?  Seems pretty simple to say, "PBR" or whatever.

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2014, 04:46:55 PM »
I propose we go back to the original Maltose Falcons guidelines from 1978/1979

•   Ale, Grain
•   Ale, Grain - Dark
•   Ale, Extract
•   Ale, Extract – Dark
•   Stout or Bock
•   “Unusual”
•   Lager, Grain
•   Lager, Grain – Dark
•   Lager, Extract
•   Lager, Extract – Dark
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline Jeff M

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
  • Currently upgrading to Brewery 3.0
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2014, 05:09:35 PM »
I propose we go back to the original Maltose Falcons guidelines from 1978/1979

•   Ale, Grain
•   Ale, Grain - Dark
•   Ale, Extract
•   Ale, Extract – Dark
•   Stout or Bock
•   “Unusual”
•   Lager, Grain
•   Lager, Grain – Dark
•   Lager, Extract
•   Lager, Extract – Dark

Exciting times.  Im gonna start growing sideburns now!
Granite Coast Brewing Company.
Building a clone of The Electric Brewery to use as a pilot system for new recipes!

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6174
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2014, 05:14:13 PM »
I propose we go back to the original Maltose Falcons guidelines from 1978/1979

•   Ale, Grain
•   Ale, Grain - Dark
•   Ale, Extract
•   Ale, Extract – Dark
•   Stout or Bock
•   “Unusual”
•   Lager, Grain
•   Lager, Grain – Dark
•   Lager, Extract
•   Lager, Extract – Dark

Exciting times.  Im gonna start growing sideburns now!

Reminds me of some of the old recipe books back when I started !  The recipes either used 'ale yeast' or 'lager yeast'. And you had the malt extract cans with the packet of yeast taped to the lid.  Stuff has come a long way.  :D
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4785
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2014, 05:59:19 PM »
Klickitat Jim Guidelines
Made Beer
Bought Beer

If these were the style categories only two people would win gold. A pro and an homebrewer
Think how exclusive that would be.

More catagories just means more awards. If I'm wrong why are there a bazillion pro catagories?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:02:31 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline 69franx

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1158
  • Hidden Valley Lake, IN: Greater Cincinnati
    • View Profile
2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2014, 06:37:14 PM »
Helps BMC makers win awards for the best beers in their niche. Can't compete with hand crafted, innovative beers; but they do nail down what they want to do


Sent from The Alpine Brewery using Tapatalk
Frank Laske
Franx Brew Works
Fermenting: German Themed IPA, Ringler Pilsner
Conditioning: The Queen's Diamonds EBW, House IPA
In Bottles:
In the works: You're my Hero Hazelnut Double Brown

Offline chumley

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2014, 09:01:41 PM »
Scoff if you will, but the 1970s Maltose Falcons guidelines make just as much sense as the BJCP guidelines do.

I know and hear the argument about judging.  But 99.9% of the drinking public care nothing about these guidelines.  I know a few professional brewers, and none of them care a twit about whether any recipe they are formulating is within some style guidelines.  They all tell me that if the public likes it, and they decide to submit it to a festival competition, then they will figure out what category they want to submit it in.

Which is the most important criterion:  Does the public want to drink it?  If yes, style be damned.

I know I am beating a dead horse, and that most of the forum disagree with me, but having been a non-BJCP judge for 10+ years for both craft beer and home brew competitions, I still believe the best tasting beer is the best tasting beer, regardless of style guidelines. A lot of the craft beer judging was done in accordance with the craft beer judging style guide, posted earlier.

The last homebrew competition I judged, I was paired with the head brewer from a local (and excellent) microbrewery.  It was a BJCP (sanctioned?) event.  We were judging using the BJCP score sheet, and were agreeing with a point or two for the entire flight, and all was fine.  Then, the second to last on the flight, we came across a delicious beer that I scored low but Mr. Professional Craft Brewer scored high.  The difference?  Although it was delicious, it was out of style.

I explained to the brewer why we had to score it lower, because it was out of style, and he agreed and lowered his score.  But he asked me, "Why?"

And I did not have a good answer, so I suggested to him that may be we were not cut out to be BJCP judges.

He agreed.

So there you have it.


Offline MDixon

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
    • Mike's Homebrewing Page
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 04:59:14 AM »
So no styles are presented and you walk into a construction themed brewpub and your choices are:
Gravel
Shovel
Wheelbarrow
Hardhat
Concrete
Mortar
Jackhammer
Jumping Jack
etc.

None have descriptions because that would cause them to be stylistically something. What do you order and why?

If they described the beer as a light lager...boom...there's something you recognize as a style. I mean when you homebrew you make stylistic decisions even when you aren't shooting for style. You choose yeast, which cause the beer to hone in on a style, hops - style, water treatment - style, etc. Now no one has to meet or even come close to a style, but to say their should be no styles is a bit absurd.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline dkfick

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 06:04:43 AM »
So no styles are presented and you walk into a construction themed brewpub and your choices are:
Gravel
Shovel
Wheelbarrow
Hardhat
Concrete
Mortar
Jackhammer
Jumping Jack
etc.

None have descriptions because that would cause them to be stylistically something. What do you order and why?

If they described the beer as a light lager...boom...there's something you recognize as a style. I mean when you homebrew you make stylistic decisions even when you aren't shooting for style. You choose yeast, which cause the beer to hone in on a style, hops - style, water treatment - style, etc. Now no one has to meet or even come close to a style, but to say their should be no styles is a bit absurd.
Exactly. Styles help you know wtf you're getting.  Obviously if you're a BMC guy you have your go to beer (which is clearly Gravel in this case).  You could just go in there and order your Gravel... but if you happen to like different kinds of beers... Good luck ordering a beer... You're going to have to talk to the bartender forever and hope and pray they have tried those beers...
BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
Cicerone Certified Beer Server
AHA Member
CRAFT Homebrew Club
Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
HBT "mors"

Offline leejoreilly

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Washington, MI
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 06:39:36 AM »
So no styles are presented and you walk into a construction themed brewpub and your choices are:
Gravel
Shovel
Wheelbarrow
Hardhat
Concrete
Mortar
Jackhammer
Jumping Jack
etc.

None have descriptions because that would cause them to be stylistically something. What do you order and why?

If they described the beer as a light lager...boom...there's something you recognize as a style. I mean when you homebrew you make stylistic decisions even when you aren't shooting for style. You choose yeast, which cause the beer to hone in on a style, hops - style, water treatment - style, etc. Now no one has to meet or even come close to a style, but to say their should be no styles is a bit absurd.
Exactly. Styles help you know wtf you're getting.  Obviously if you're a BMC guy you have your go to beer (which is clearly Gravel in this case).  You could just go in there and order your Gravel... but if you happen to like different kinds of beers... Good luck ordering a beer... You're going to have to talk to the bartender forever and hope and pray they have tried those beers...

Yeah, I agree. The Style Guidelines serve two primary functions. One is to set comparison standards for those of us who want to be involved in brewing competitions. This calls for more precise and technical specs. The second is to provide the beer-drinking public with a common vocabulary. While less precision is necessary for this, it does let us order a beer with some confidence as to generally what we're going to get, and to discuss beers with some clarity (no pun intended).

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1774
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2014, 06:40:28 AM »
The style guidelines certainly are not perfect but having some type of style guidelines provides a set of rules that all participants in a competition can follow when entering their beers. Without them, each competition turns entirely into a ranking of the personal preferences of the judges and inevitably that means the biggest versions of each style are most likely to win. That would result in more complaints about the quality of judges and less interest in competition. There is a place for those kinds of open-ended, people's choice-type competitions but those are generally not regarded as serious competitions.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing but I'm also a lawyer: The Kielich Law Firm

Offline ranchovillabrew

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: 2014 BJCP Style Guidelines Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2014, 06:40:36 AM »
If you're not going to have styles.  You shouldn't have names either. Choice would be taps 1-5.
They all have beer in them
- Charles