Author Topic: Mash Out Fiasco  (Read 1549 times)

Offline thebrewedpalate

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Mash Out Fiasco
« on: June 23, 2014, 08:44:08 PM »
During my most recent brew the following "Mash Out Fiasco" occurred....

After mashing my grains for 60 minutes I vorlaufed and added the mash out water. When I saw that my new mash temperature was too high I accidently added too much cold water to cool down the mash and no matter how much more HOT water I added to raise the temp to 168F the temp didn't get there. Therefore, in the end I mash for over an hour extra and extract some harsh flavors from the midnight wheat and carafe III that I used.

In the future what I can I do if I overshoot my mash out temp and need to cool the mash down?

Thanks!
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 09:04:30 PM »
Vorlauf is recirculating wort from the outlet (bottom of the grain bed) to the top of the grain bed to help set the filter bed and clarify the wort. You should do that after any mashout step.

Mashout is intended to raise the grain bed temp high enough to denature the enzymes and halt conversion. If you are controlling your water pH and alkalinity too hot is not a problem for mashout. it is unlikely to be a problem at all unless you are starting with a very thick mash and adding a lot of water.

sounds like you added a lot of extra water and that might be a concern but if you never got above 168 then there is nothing to worry about. an extra hour on the mash might produce a more fermentable wort than you were expecting but it's nothing to worry about either.

you will likely get more roasty astringency than you were hoping for but no more than everyone used to get before we all started adding roasted malts at the end of the mash.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 09:10:53 PM »
If the pH didn't drop too low a high mash out temp won't make a difference. Remember Decoction mashes are boiled. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Offline duboman

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 09:53:49 PM »
Sounds like you batch sparged? If so there is no need to do a mash out in the technical term and if the water was higher than 168oF with pH in the proper range then tannin extraction shouldn't be a concern either.

The worst case scenario, assuming the above is you may have over sparged and missed your pre-boil volume?
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2014, 01:12:17 PM »
Add cold water only 2 cups at a time.  A little cold water goes a long way as you noticed!
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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 02:29:51 PM »
How high did the mash temperature get?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 02:30:11 PM »
How high did the mash temperature get?

and for how long?
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 04:12:52 PM »
How high did the mash temperature get?

and for how long?

If it is at mash out, and if the pH wasn't low, there shouldn't have been any tannin extraction.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2014, 04:17:38 PM »
How high did the mash temperature get?

and for how long?

If it is at mash out, and if the pH wasn't low, there shouldn't have been any tannin extraction.

True. I spaced it was at mashout. I was more concerned with denaturing the enzymes but given mashout as target no worries. and I think it's too high a pH that is a problem no?
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Offline thebrewedpalate

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2014, 10:33:46 PM »
I mashed at 148 for 60 minutes before this whole "fiasco" took place. After I added too much cold water, the highest I was able to get the temp was 161. Some of my friends told me that the astringent flavors that I've been picking up in the finished beer are from the midnight wheat that I used, which they feel is known for adding an astringent or burnt bread taste.

I guess I did batch sparge instead of fly sparge which I wanted to do. Though i was able to collect my target volume I ended up missing my target pre boil gravity by 8 points.
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Offline thebrewedpalate

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 10:36:40 PM »
I mashed at 148 for 60 minutes before this whole "fiasco" took place. After I added too much cold water, the highest I was able to get the temp was 161. Some of my friends told me that the astringent flavors that I've been picking up in the finished beer are from the midnight wheat that I used, which they feel is known for adding an astringent or burnt bread taste.

I guess I did batch sparge instead of fly sparge which I wanted to do. Though i was able to collect my target volume I ended up missing my target pre boil gravity by 8 points.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 09:16:14 AM »
I mashed at 148 for 60 minutes before this whole "fiasco" took place. After I added too much cold water, the highest I was able to get the temp was 161. Some of my friends told me that the astringent flavors that I've been picking up in the finished beer are from the midnight wheat that I used, which they feel is known for adding an astringent or burnt bread taste.

I guess I did batch sparge instead of fly sparge which I wanted to do. Though i was able to collect my target volume I ended up missing my target pre boil gravity by 8 points.

midnight wheat is a pretty mellow roasted wheat malt. I use it regularly on the commercial level for one of my flagship beers. It's a very nice malt, IMO, with subtle roasted flavors. Since it has no husk to extract tannin's from I'm not sure that is your problem.

A high mash out temp shouldn't be a problem unless you have a high pH. It's combination of high pH and high temps that causes tannin extraction from the malt.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 10:58:52 AM »
And for future reference, if you want to avoid adding much roasty notes to your wort, but still get a dark color, you can add the roasted grains right at mash out, if you would like, or you can just use Sinamar to color the wort in the boil.

Agreed as to all other points about the water - build from RO, if necessary, to get pH and RA dialed in.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 05:02:20 PM »
And for future reference, if you want to avoid adding much roasty notes to your wort, but still get a dark color, you can add the roasted grains right at mash out, if you would like, or you can just use Sinamar to color the wort in the boil.

Agreed as to all other points about the water - build from RO, if necessary, to get pH and RA dialed in.

to be fair to the OP that was what he TRIED to do
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Mash Out Fiasco
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 05:29:41 PM »
And for future reference, if you want to avoid adding much roasty notes to your wort, but still get a dark color, you can add the roasted grains right at mash out, if you would like, or you can just use Sinamar to color the wort in the boil.

Agreed as to all other points about the water - build from RO, if necessary, to get pH and RA dialed in.

to be fair to the OP that was what he TRIED to do

True, Mort, but the late add wouldn't have subjected the roasty grains to as prolonged of a mash time...in case mash temp is missed again.  Frankly, I have cold sparged with dark grains to avoid too much roast flavor in a dark beer or cold steeped the dark grains and added the cold "wort" to the boil in the last 10 minutes of the boil.  But I appreciate the focus here was on tannin extraction, which is pH and RA related for the most part...
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