Author Topic: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue  (Read 1892 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2014, 12:49:32 PM »
I have had good luck getting 565 to finish with a low FG. It may stall for a week, then resumes fermentation like nothing happened. The author in the article may not have the time to wait it out in a commercial brewery. A solution would be a mixed fermentation to turn the tank in a timely fashion.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2014, 01:28:46 PM »
if something works, keep doing it.  I think most people understand this.

Personally I'm just not afraid of 0.036psi (0.2% above ambient) from a 1" column of water in my airlock.

I think it may be about the CO2 O2 exchange in open fermentation, not the small pressure from an airlock.

Edit - it might be a REF project?
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2014, 02:11:58 PM »
    Quote from: dbeechum link=topic=19699.msg250884#msg250884 date=1403806338
    [list
    [li]No airlocks/blow offs. Use foil. The Dupont strains in particular are backpressure sensitive.[/li]
    [/list]

    Never heard that. Thanks Drew !
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    Offline dbeechum

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #33 on: June 26, 2014, 02:16:23 PM »
    Scientifically it is impossible for much pressure differential with airlocks or blowoffs, unless they get clogged.  Is that your fear, Drew?  Clogging from yeast blowout?  Otherwise, assuming no clogging, the pressure inside the fermenter is atmospheric, plus a teeny tiny insignificant amount that causes the bubbling through the airlock.

    No fear, just a combination of practical experimentation and information directly from WL's and Wyeast that those core Saison strains are back pressure sensitive, not unlike a wine yeast which is as well.
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    Online dmtaylor

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #34 on: June 26, 2014, 02:18:17 PM »
    0.036 psi, eh...
    Dave

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #35 on: June 26, 2014, 03:16:54 PM »
    sorry if that was too Full Enginerd for present company. 

    I didn't calculate it; I've just memorized the number from scores of top pressure discussions my friend (who did calculate it) and I have had with internet denizens over many years. 

    I'll reiterate:  If something works, keep doing it.  I've had at least a couple of Drew's saisons and they are excellent.   

    Offline dkfick

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 03:18:43 PM »
    if something works, keep doing it.  I think most people understand this.

    Personally I'm just not afraid of 0.036psi (0.2% above ambient) from a 1" column of water in my airlock.

    I think it may be about the CO2 O2 exchange in open fermentation, not the small pressure from an airlock.

    Edit - it might be a REF project?
    I'm not sure much o2 gets into a fermenter with an empty airlock on it (just to keep dust out) or even if it were a carboy with foil over it... During fermentation there is an awful lot of co2 shooting out of there... I don't really know the answer though... I just know from my experiments my English beers turn out much better if I have as little pressure as possible during the fermentation. (I have done it in the boil kettle with the lid just sitting on it as well)  Conversely I often do a 15psi ferment for beers I want to come out cleaner which I find also makes a difference... Though obviously 15psi is quit a bit more pressure difference than airlock vs no air lock ;-)
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    Offline hopfenundmalz

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 05:39:01 PM »
    if something works, keep doing it.  I think most people understand this.

    Personally I'm just not afraid of 0.036psi (0.2% above ambient) from a 1" column of water in my airlock.

    I think it may be about the CO2 O2 exchange in open fermentation, not the small pressure from an airlock.

    Edit - it might be a REF project?
    I'm not sure much o2 gets into a fermenter with an empty airlock on it (just to keep dust out) or even if it were a carboy with foil over it... During fermentation there is an awful lot of co2 shooting out of there... I don't really know the answer though... I just know from my experiments my English beers turn out much better if I have as little pressure as possible during the fermentation. (I have done it in the boil kettle with the lid just sitting on it as well)  Conversely I often do a 15psi ferment for beers I want to come out cleaner which I find also makes a difference... Though obviously 15psi is quit a bit more pressure difference than airlock vs no air lock ;-)
    I was thinking about open, no lid in a clean environment, vs. closed with airlock.

    German wheat beer yeasts are said to benefit from open fermentation. Sierra Nevada and New Glarus use open fermenters for that type of yeast.

    German lager breweries in Franconia use open fermenters also.

    The wheat beers in Germany are in round fermenters with a trough to harvest yeast. Go down about 1/3 way to see one at Schneider in Germany. Lots of other good pictures.
    http://brewingjourney.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html




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    Offline dkfick

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 06:36:48 AM »
    if something works, keep doing it.  I think most people understand this.

    Personally I'm just not afraid of 0.036psi (0.2% above ambient) from a 1" column of water in my airlock.

    I think it may be about the CO2 O2 exchange in open fermentation, not the small pressure from an airlock.

    Edit - it might be a REF project?
    I'm not sure much o2 gets into a fermenter with an empty airlock on it (just to keep dust out) or even if it were a carboy with foil over it... During fermentation there is an awful lot of co2 shooting out of there... I don't really know the answer though... I just know from my experiments my English beers turn out much better if I have as little pressure as possible during the fermentation. (I have done it in the boil kettle with the lid just sitting on it as well)  Conversely I often do a 15psi ferment for beers I want to come out cleaner which I find also makes a difference... Though obviously 15psi is quit a bit more pressure difference than airlock vs no air lock ;-)
    I was thinking about open, no lid in a clean environment, vs. closed with airlock.

    German wheat beer yeasts are said to benefit from open fermentation. Sierra Nevada and New Glarus use open fermenters for that type of yeast.

    German lager breweries in Franconia use open fermenters also.

    The wheat beers in Germany are in round fermenters with a trough to harvest yeast. Go down about 1/3 way to see one at Schneider in Germany. Lots of other good pictures.
    http://brewingjourney.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html
    Yeah I would do totally open fermentation like that... if it were in my ability ;-) So I have to do "open" fermentation with something covering the fermenter but not sealing it.  It's the best I can do on the homebrew scale.  I've done many side by sides with my English beers and I always prefer the open fermentation batch.  Have not tried it with German ones... Wonder what the benefit would be.  With the English strains I do it mostly to encourage esters.
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    Offline AmandaK

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #39 on: June 27, 2014, 07:01:56 AM »
    Brewing TV did an open vs closed experiment way back when they first started. Used the WY hefe yeast, IIRC.
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    Offline bluesman

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    Re: Saison Article in July/Aug 2014 Issue
    « Reply #40 on: June 27, 2014, 09:33:25 AM »
    Anyone have any experience with oaking Saisons that they would like to share. Tips, tricks or extreme ideas. :)
    Ron Price