Author Topic: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice  (Read 1050 times)

Offline trapae

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Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« on: June 30, 2014, 08:32:15 PM »
I am trying to write a easy drinking pale ale recipe for my new pump/hopstand upgrade and would welcome any advice.  It is a kind of a blend of a Biermuncher's Kona pale ale and Patrick Henry pale ale (Chris Colby's), but with whirlpool hopping.  Never done a hopstand/whirlpool before and hoping this will give me some good flavor and aroma.  IBUs were calculated using beersmith.
Thanks


Batch Size: 5.85 gal   Style: American Pale Ale (10A)
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Color: 6.4
Bitterness: 37.1 IBUs   Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.055 (13.5° P)
Est FG: 1.013 SG (3.3° P)
ABV: 5.6%   

Ingredients
Amount   Name   Type   #
9 lbs 8.5 oz   Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs 1.0 oz   Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
8.5 oz   Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)
4.2 oz   Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.3 oz   Magnum [14.0%] - Boil 60 min
0.5 oz   Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 20 min   
0.50     Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5 min)
0.5 oz   Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Steep 30 min
1.2 oz   Cascade [5.5%] - Steep 30 min
Starter   German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029)
0.8 oz   Cascade [5.5%] - Dry Hop 4 days
0.5 oz   Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 4 days

Mash 154 for 60 min
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 01:57:24 AM »
I like the results and do it often. You won't know until you try it on your system.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 04:40:49 AM »
You might consider knocking back that honey malt some. A little goes a long way. At that amount you may experience some flavor clash with the American hops.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 06:42:09 AM »
I would also ditch the carapils unless you have some specific reason why you need it.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 06:49:04 AM »
Does your software account of the extra IBUs gained in the whirlpool? If not, this might end up a lot more bitter than expected.

Since you're shooting for a moderate IBU level, you may be better off just getting your IBUs in the boil then adding your steep hops once your wort cools to about 180f.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 10:11:32 AM »
Does your software account of the extra IBUs gained in the whirlpool? If not, this might end up a lot more bitter than expected.

Since you're shooting for a moderate IBU level, you may be better off just getting your IBUs in the boil then adding your steep hops once your wort cools to about 180f.
I have heard Beersmith tries to take hop stands into account in the latest version. How accurate is it for the OPs system and techniques? He will have to brew it and see if it is too bitter or not bitter enough.
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Offline trapae

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2014, 10:25:13 AM »
Yes, new version of beersmith did calculate IBUs for whirlpool, but I assume it is for the higher temps 200-210, and not around 180.  I would think you get more IBUs from the higher temps.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2014, 10:28:12 AM »
Yes, new version of beersmith did calculate IBUs for whirlpool, but I assume it is for the higher temps 200-210, and not around 180.  I would think you get more IBUs from the higher temps.

Yep, from 180F and under, you extract a lot less bitterness. 175-170F even less yet.
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Offline dak0415

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2014, 11:15:14 AM »
OK you hopstanders.  With a 30 minute steep, what does Beersmith do with the IBU contributions from the 60 minute boil?  Should you incease the "boil" time to compensate?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 03:02:28 PM »
OK you hopstanders.  With a 30 minute steep, what does Beersmith do with the IBU contributions from the 60 minute boil?  Should you incease the "boil" time to compensate?


I don't use Beersmith but my feeling is that software is not always accurate in terms of IBUs with hop stand additions at cooler temps, which I prefer. I don't look for any bitterness in hop stands and get very little if I stand at 170-175F, so I don't alter my bittering hops at all.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 05:20:54 PM »
OK you hopstanders.  With a 30 minute steep, what does Beersmith do with the IBU contributions from the 60 minute boil?  Should you incease the "boil" time to compensate?
I don't use beersmith, but Brewers Friend has a feature for No Chill brewers where it adds however many minutes you choose to the boil to help estimate additional IBUs from the extra time at hot temps after the boil. I use this for my hop stands. About 1/4 to 1/3 the hop stand time is a good ballpark to start at, but you will need to dial this in on your system.

For example, on a 30 minute hop stand you would add 7 to 10 minutes to each of your hop additions to estimate the extra IBU's.

Or, if you just have a 60 minute addition its probably safe to ignore it since utilization drops off significantly beyond that point.
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Offline mattybrass

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 10:55:43 AM »
I just brewed a DIPA using hop extract and 4 oz of hops in the whirlpool. I steeped at 180 for 30m. I was looking for more flavor/aroma than bitterness. I would use BS to get a good estimation of the IBU values and maybe extend the steep if you are going to steep at a less temp than 200.

Offline Kinetic

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 03:44:55 PM »
Beersmith does not adjust the ibu values of the pre aroma steep hops when you do an aroma steep.  I suppose you could duplicate the boil hops as a steep addition in the software, but I don't bother with that. 

If you steep in the 140-160 range, not much bitterness is added from any of the hops.  If you steep at a temperature less than 194F, you should adjust the steep utilization factor.  The default is 50% and this is for 194F.

Don't be afraid to add 20-40ibu as a steep addition.  I don't perceive much extra bitterness from a 60 minute steep at 160F.  For example, the beer I'm drinking now calculates 87ibu.  20ibu is from the steep.  Extra ibu from the boil hops being steeped was not calculated.  The beer is not rough at all.  I would call it medium smooth bitter, but still pretty hoppy and flavorful.  If I drank it blind and had to guess the ibu, I'd guess 50.     

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool recipe advice
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 03:53:16 PM »
Beersmith does not adjust the ibu values of the pre aroma steep hops when you do an aroma steep.  I suppose you could duplicate the boil hops as a steep addition in the software, but I don't bother with that. 

If you steep in the 140-160 range, not much bitterness is added from any of the hops.  If you steep at a temperature less than 194F, you should adjust the steep utilization factor.  The default is 50% and this is for 194F.

Don't be afraid to add 20-40ibu as a steep addition.  I don't perceive much extra bitterness from a 60 minute steep at 160F.  For example, the beer I'm drinking now calculates 87ibu.  20ibu is from the steep.  Extra ibu from the boil hops being steeped was not calculated.  The beer is not rough at all.  I would call it medium smooth bitter, but still pretty hoppy and flavorful.  If I drank it blind and had to guess the ibu, I'd guess 50.     

+1.  I think it's just 'IBU numbers' and not much noticeable bitterness even at 170-175F. To me it's really hoppy but yet 'softer', less coarse hop character as compared to the same number of IBUs in a traditional finishing hop boil schedule.
Jon H.