[reverseapachemaster]

Ya I went to Logsdon's Farmhouse a month ago and was instantly sold on the cherry Flanders and peche farmhouse styles. Swore I'd never brew wild or with fruit... don't rule out doing beers you've never tried awesome examples of.

The Cerise is incredibly delicious. I'm very sad I don't have access to Logsdon at home.

[klickitat jim]

Yes the cerasus is my favorite, unless its empty then I like the peche, followed by anything else he makes. Though im not a huge fan of coriander,  so the spiced belgian... not so much. But thats not his fault.

[kylekohlmorgen]

...Swore I'd never brew wild or with fruit... don't rule out doing beers you've never tried awesome examples of.

Welcome to the dark side!

It won't be long until you have funky ferments going in all corners of your house...

[morticaixavier]

...Swore I'd never brew wild or with fruit... don't rule out doing beers you've never tried awesome examples of.

Welcome to the dark side!

It won't be long until you have funky ferments going in all corners of your house...

My wife is an angel and the proof is that we have not had a master bath shower for over a year because I took it over for my 'sour room'. This also means that on occasion an exhalation of lactic/funky wonderful will waft out of that bathroom in the night and STILL she doesn't kick me to the curb. love.

[HoosierBrew]

...Swore I'd never brew wild or with fruit... don't rule out doing beers you've never tried awesome examples of.

Welcome to the dark side!

It won't be long until you have funky ferments going in all corners of your house...

My wife is an angel and the proof is that we have not had a master bath shower for over a year because I took it over for my 'sour room'. This also means that on occasion an exhalation of lactic/funky wonderful will waft out of that bathroom in the night and STILL she doesn't kick me to the curb. love.

Man, that's funny. She's definitely a keeper ! My wife has sacrificed some space over the years too, but never the master shower.  .  Awesome.

EDIT - But my wife is basically a beer hater except for the fruit beers I make for her, and she is supportive of it nonetheless, so I'm lucky too.

[dannyjed]

...Swore I'd never brew wild or with fruit... don't rule out doing beers you've never tried awesome examples of.

Welcome to the dark side!

It won't be long until you have funky ferments going in all corners of your house...

My wife is an angel and the proof is that we have not had a master bath shower for over a year because I took it over for my 'sour room'. This also means that on occasion an exhalation of lactic/funky wonderful will waft out of that bathroom in the night and STILL she doesn't kick me to the curb. love.

That is awesome...sacrifice for the sours!

[ynotbrusum]

To extend this thread on a slight tangent, I heard that Brett will eat autolyzed yeast, if necessary, so what effect will storage of the harvested Roeselaere blend have on shifting the balance of the blend away from the original pitch/harvest yeast:bugs ratio?

Or is that geeking it to a microbiology level that a homebrewer should just ignore.  With so much time invested in these sours, I am thinking I should at least ask!

Sorry for the hijack/diversion, Jim, but with the name of the topic, I thought it made more senses just go with this one further....

[morticaixavier]

To extend this thread on a slight tangent, I heard that Brett will eat autolyzed yeast, if necessary, so what effect will storage of the harvested Roeselaere blend have on shifting the balance of the blend away from the original pitch/harvest yeast:bugs ratio?

Or is that geeking it to a microbiology level that a homebrewer should just ignore.  With so much time invested in these sours, I am thinking I should at least ask!

Sorry for the hijack/diversion, Jim, but with the name of the topic, I thought it made more senses just go with this one further....

the balance for sure changes over time when ageing. I don't have nearly enough experience yet to say how. I know that in general bacteria reproduce a heck of a lot faster than yeast and wild yeasts tend to have a lot less cold tolerance than sach strains.

I think it's important to learn to let go of a little control (or illusion thereof) when dealing with sour beers. Even more than with 'clean' beers it's microbiota that are in charge. One of the things about mixed fermentations that I love is the mystery of not knowing what will come out of each project and not even knowing how each project will present in a week, month, or year. I'm just starting to get enough of a sour pipeline built up to start thinking about blending and it's a whole new world of taste imagination to practice.

[Kinetic]

The sacc, brett, lacto, pedio balance will be significantly different from the initial pitch because they reproduce and die at different rates.  Some people report good or even subjectively better results with the second generation pitch.  I haven't tried a second generation pitch and don't plan on trying it.  I'm happy with the first pitch results.

[kylekohlmorgen]

To extend this thread on a slight tangent, I heard that Brett will eat autolyzed yeast, if necessary, so what effect will storage of the harvested Roeselaere blend have on shifting the balance of the blend away from the original pitch/harvest yeast:bugs ratio?

Or is that geeking it to a microbiology level that a homebrewer should just ignore.  With so much time invested in these sours, I am thinking I should at least ask!

Sorry for the hijack/diversion, Jim, but with the name of the topic, I thought it made more senses just go with this one further....

I "store" my mixed cultures at room temp in growlers. I decant the clearest beer and feed replace with fresh wort every 6-8 weeks. The starter wort is 1.030ish and has a big dollup of maltodextrin along with DME.

If you want to keep your Roselare going, just make a starter and pour in some from the keg/bottle (before chilling).

I expect that over time the sacch strains die off and leave brett and bacteria. If you're using an older culture, you can either pitch fresh sacch/brett, or just let it go. You don't really need a sacch strain.

I've also seen lacto viability drop off as the culture matures, so I've taken to pre-souring with a separate lacto culture for Flanders-style and quick sours (Gose), just to move things along. In traditional lambic, pedio does most/all of the souring anyway.

I kept my lambic culture going in a bucket by racking off and back on in the same day. The 2nd batch was exponentially more awesome than the 1st. I had to clean it when I moved, else it would still be going.

[klickitat jim]

Good tangent. Can a bug pro answer his question about bugs eating the sac yeast? If they do, what is the point of racking off the trub to secondary? Especially if secondarying for a long period of time?

[morticaixavier]

I've certainly heard that brett and other bacteria will eat autolized yeast. Depending on how complete they are about it wracking becomes an issue of controlling levels of what ever flavour compounds are created by that process. more dead yeast = more flavors.

[Kinetic]

I'm not a bug pro, but brett will eat dead sacc.  The last Flanders I made where I left everything in the primary for six months did have a little autolysis flavor, but it was a good umami flavor like marmite and it wasn't overpowering.  I suppose the flavor could intensify over longer periods of time and perhaps become unpleasant depending on your taste.  I had a Belgian sour from Alvinne a few months ago that had a much heavier autolysis flavor than my beer and I still thought it tasted good.

[klickitat jim]

Hmmm I think ill rack off to another speidel when I drop my fruit. Thanks

[Kinetic]

That's the safest move for your first wild beer and it's what most home brewers do.  I'm leaving it on the cake for 9 months next time to see if it increases umami-ness.