Author Topic: Is the NHC for rich people?  (Read 6129 times)

Offline senorpantalones

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2010, 12:49:43 PM »
Hi Senor Pantalones,
Thanks for your suggestion on how the National Homebrew Competition (NHC) can be improved.  I will add your suggestion to the list that the the AHA Governing Committee's Competition Sub-Committee will consider for next year's competition.
Cheers,
    Janis

Janis Gross
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AHA Project Coordinator
janis@brewersassociation.org


Janis, Thanks for responding. I'm really glad to see that you guys take the time to look at issues like this, even if the decision doesn't go the way I was hoping.

Offline Janis

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2010, 12:56:45 PM »
Sorry I didn't respond sooner; I was traveling when you first posted.
It's great that you have a suggestion on how to improve the competition.  If you have any other ideas in this regard, please let me know, and I'll see what I can do to incorporate your suggestions.

Cheers,
   Janis

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Offline gsandel

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2010, 05:47:09 PM »
Fifty beers....if that is what it takes to win the Ninkasi, that is running the tables, and that favors the richest and most prolific brewers among us.  I would rather each brewer enter their best beer (one entry), but since most of us enter for feedback (rather than believing that we can actually win in such an environment) that would punish the moderate hobbyist for the excesses of the win at all cost set.  Perhaps we need to institute limits.  Enter as much as you like, but only the average of your 5 best entries count towards the Ninkasi, or better yet, have each brewer wishing to enter 5 beers for the Ninkasi have to choose their best 5 (if they entered more than 5) for consideration.  They would have to know which 5 to choose.

Rewarding the person who enters 50 beers (albeit good beers to have enough to place that highly) seems like a rather silly award.  Again, I always hate to see a competition dominated by just a few participants as I often see in brewing comps.  If you are that good, it is time to give up your eligibility and get on the pro circuit.

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Offline karlh

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2010, 07:08:15 PM »
Fifty beers....if that is what it takes to win the Ninkasi, that is running the tables, and that favors the richest and most prolific brewers among us.  I would rather each brewer enter their best beer (one entry), but since most of us enter for feedback (rather than believing that we can actually win in such an environment) that would punish the moderate hobbyist for the excesses of the win at all cost set.  Perhaps we need to institute limits.  Enter as much as you like, but only the average of your 5 best entries count towards the Ninkasi, or better yet, have each brewer wishing to enter 5 beers for the Ninkasi have to choose their best 5 (if they entered more than 5) for consideration.  They would have to know which 5 to choose.

Rewarding the person who enters 50 beers (albeit good beers to have enough to place that highly) seems like a rather silly award.  Again, I always hate to see a competition dominated by just a few participants as I often see in brewing comps.  If you are that good, it is time to give up your eligibility and get on the pro circuit.


I entered a single beer, and feel that it has a fighting chance (for what its worth).  I think that it's a pretty good beer, and if I hear back that it has gone on to the second round, I will send in whatever they ask for and wait.  I obviously will not win the Ninkasi award, but who cares... I only entered one beer for crying out loud!  I learned a long time ago that if you enter two beers in a twelve beer competition that its no suprise when you come home with two 3rd place ribbons.  The whole point of entering a beer in the nationals for me is taking something I'm proud of and seeing how it does.  The worst I can do is get feedback from judges on how I might improve the beer, and then try again. 

I'm not rich, so I can't game the system with 50 entries.  The thought of spending that kind of money on a single beer contest boggles my mind.  I tried hard competing in the midwest homebrewer of the year in 2009, and did well by sending one of each beer I brewed to regional competitions. It was cheaper than $9 per entry, and spread out over several months.  For me, the situation has changed, an I can't afford many competitions or the NHC.  But I still feel like my one entry has a chance of going on to the second round and even placing or winning.  So, even if someone else has twenty entries ahead of me, I still think there's a chance my beer is better than their's and the judges will see it that way. 
Karl
Mundelein, IL  USA

Offline marty

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2010, 06:46:40 AM »
Rewarding the person who enters 50 beers (albeit good beers to have enough to place that highly) seems like a rather silly award.  Again, I always hate to see a competition dominated by just a few participants as I often see in brewing comps.  If you are that good, it is time to give up your eligibility and get on the pro circuit.

if they're that good, it's time for other people to step up their brewing

Winning in a competition that successful brewers are barred from entering wouldn't mean squat. I'd rather compete against the best and see if I can beat them, even if it's for only one category.

If people aren't allowed to enter 50, then there will be complaints about people entering 40, then 30, then 20, then 10.

Then it will be 'if you take 1st in a category, you shouldn't enter that category in the future so everyone else can have a chance.'
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 06:49:40 AM by marty »

Offline a10t2

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2010, 07:54:59 AM »
if they're that good, it's time for other people to step up their brewing

Couldn't agree more. Ninkasi is a points competition, and if you've decided to go for it, it would be downright illogical for there to be a rule barring you from earning as many points as possible.

Not to mention that no matter how good a brewer you are, to have a shot at it you need to enter enough beer to get a good statistical representation. The beers are judging by human beings, so no matter what, some will always end up ranked higher or lower than they should be.
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2010, 08:10:15 AM »
If I'm not mistaken ( which has happened in the past, present and future ), in 2007 Jamil won Ninkasi with 3 golds and 1 bronze...just 4 beers.  And in 2008, Gordon Strong won with just 2 golds...just 2 beers.  It's all based on 2nd round winners, right?  So brew 3-4 kick ass beers and you could win Ninkasi too. 
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2010, 08:25:23 AM »
If I'm not mistaken ( which has happened in the past, present and future ), in 2007 Jamil won Ninkasi with 3 golds and 1 bronze...just 4 beers.  And in 2008, Gordon Strong won with just 2 golds...just 2 beers.  It's all based on 2nd round winners, right?  So brew 3-4 kick ass beers and you could win Ninkasi too. 

In 2008, Gordon and another brewer both had 2 golds.  There was a tie breaker involved.  I can't remember exactly, but was it the number that advanced to the second round?

Gordon also said that in 2009, he was between jobs, and used one unemployment check for his entries. 

I entered more this year than last, as well, it is the Nationals.
It all comes down to what is it worth to you!
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2010, 08:26:38 AM »
It's certainly possible. I was just saying that it's unlikely. No matter how good the beers are, they won't all advance. Gordon Strong entered 50 beers into the first round.

The tiebreaker is total first round points, so there could be some additional value in that too.
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Offline babalu87

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2010, 08:32:14 AM »
It's certainly possible. I was just saying that it's unlikely. No matter how good the beers are, they won't all advance. Gordon Strong entered 50 beers into the first round.

The tiebreaker is total first round points, so there could be some additional value in that too.

To your earlier point sending say a 9 A, B, C, D and E certainly improves ones chances of moving on in that Category

Suffice to say, nobody is winning a Ninkasi without sending North of about 30-40 beers

I mean Jamil had 29 beers place in the first round...................... dumb luck is going to tell you that he needed to enter more than 29 to have 29 beers place.
Jeff

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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2010, 08:33:55 AM »
I never expect to win anything ( although I did get a cool certificate for a 27 point American Stout last year  :D ), but I am mainly looking for feedback from some good judges.

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Offline babalu87

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2010, 08:35:41 AM »
I never expect to win anything ( although I did get a cool certificate for a 27 point American Stout last year  :D ), but I am mainly looking for feedback from some good judges.



Regional competitions do that for you

New England Homebrew competition had 350 entries last year.

VERY well run competition too
Jeff

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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2010, 08:42:44 AM »
I never expect to win anything ( although I did get a cool certificate for a 27 point American Stout last year  :D ), but I am mainly looking for feedback from some good judges.



Regional competitions do that for you

New England Homebrew competition had 350 entries last year.

VERY well run competition too


Yeah..I had an IPA in that last year and got a 40 ( but didn't place :( ).  Not to mention I can drop off locally and save on the outrageous shipping cost.
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Offline Janis

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2010, 09:23:40 AM »
If I'm not mistaken ( which has happened in the past, present and future ), in 2007 Jamil won Ninkasi with 3 golds and 1 bronze...just 4 beers.  And in 2008, Gordon Strong won with just 2 golds...just 2 beers.  It's all based on 2nd round winners, right?  So brew 3-4 kick ass beers and you could win Ninkasi too. 

In 2008, Gordon and another brewer both had 2 golds.  There was a tie breaker involved.  I can't remember exactly, but was it the number that advanced to the second round?

Gordon also said that in 2009, he was between jobs, and used one unemployment check for his entries. 

I entered more this year than last, as well, it is the Nationals.
It all comes down to what is it worth to you!

In 2008 the Ninkasi tie was between 5 brewers.  The tie breaker was the points from the First round of the competition.  The Ninkasi Award is given to the brewer who accumulates the most points in the Final Round with at least one entry placing in the  23 beer categories.

For the two brewers in the years you have mentioned, both had entered a significant number of brews in the competition to win the Ninkasi Award.

Cheers,
     Janis
National Homebrew Competition Director
AHA Project Coordinator
janis@brewersassociation.org
Janis Gross
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AHA Project Coordinator
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Is the NHC for rich people?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2010, 09:52:43 AM »
Unfortunately money plays a role in the NHC just as it does in baseball, football and hockey but not nearly as great.

A homebrewer with more entries has a better chance of acheiving points than one with fewer entries simply by the "play to win" rule, but doesn't necessarily mean that individual will win. Brewing great beer to style is the key in my mind.

Work in = Work out

A great homebrewer who enters multiple entries has a much better chance of winning than a great homebrewer who only enters one or two entries. It depends on your goal and your strategy.

If someone wants to win the Ninkasi they better be able to brew damn good beer and lots of it. They also better be prepared to enter beers in as many categories as humanly possible. This effort is a matter of knowledge, skill, committment and hard work. Alot of blood, sweat and tears.

Anyone who can pull that off not only has earned but deserves the Ninkasi in my book.

Good Luck folks!
Ron Price