Author Topic: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid  (Read 946 times)

Offline Jeff M

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Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« on: July 15, 2014, 08:23:00 AM »
Id like to get some phosphoric acid to lower the pH of my water for brewing.  Does anyone have a recommendation on where to get it?  I found 85% food grade Phosophic acid on Amazon but was wondering if there was a better option.  I am currently using 88% lactic acid but the amounts i need to brew 1bbl make it rather expensive and the chance for an off flavor is less then appealing.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Online kramerog

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 09:16:15 AM »
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 09:30:31 AM »
Didn't they stop selling to new homebrew customers? 

I thought they changed their policy to only sell commercial but grandfathered in existing active homebrewers.  And even for them only for grain orders.

If I have that wrong, please let me know.

Your local homebrew store should have the chemicals you need.

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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 09:31:57 AM »
Didn't they stop selling to new homebrew customers? 

I thought they changed their policy to only sell commercial but grandfathered in existing active homebrewers.  And even for them only for grain orders.

If I have that wrong, please let me know.

Your local homebrew store should have the chemicals you need.

Paul

I work at my LHBS, sadly we dont have access to this acid, and dont order from CMG.  Looking for a secondary source with a higher concentration.  10% concentrations would still be rather expensive to use because of how much you would end up using.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 10:05:20 AM »
Hydroponics stores sell it for water PH adjustment. 

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 10:08:40 AM »
10% concentrations would still be rather expensive to use because of how much you would end up using.

How so? A 10% phosphoric acid addition of ~6 mL can bring my water (alkalinity=13, pH=8.5, 10gal) to pH=6. At $4 a bottle from NB, it'd take me most of the year to run through that.
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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 10:10:33 AM »
10% concentrations would still be rather expensive to use because of how much you would end up using.

How so? A 10% phosphoric acid addition of ~6 mL can bring my water (alkalinity=13, pH=8.5, 10gal) to pH=6. At $4 a bottle from NB, it'd take me most of the year to run through that.

my water ph seems to have a base of 8.7( needs more testing)  and im treating ~60g a brew.  we used 20ML of lactic last brew session.  Thats 7.5 brews per bottle.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 10:13:33 AM »
Holy crap. Never mind!
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Offline Steve in TX

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 10:14:12 AM »
my water ph seems to have a base of 8.7( needs more testing)  and im treating ~60g a brew.  we used 20ML of lactic last brew session.  Thats 7.5 brews per bottle.


I buy my lactic acid for $3-4 a bottle. 4oz LD Carlson bottle. $0.50 a 30gal batch is pretty insignificant.

Offline Jeff M

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 10:17:00 AM »
my water ph seems to have a base of 8.7( needs more testing)  and im treating ~60g a brew.  we used 20ML of lactic last brew session.  Thats 7.5 brews per bottle.


I buy my lactic acid for $3-4 a bottle. 4oz LD Carlson bottle. $0.50 a 30gal batch is pretty insignificant.

Agreed, but im trying to brew professionally eventually, and since everything adds to the cost of the beer, learning to use the correct chemicals(lactic acid adds taste to beer in large quantities, phosphoric doesnt) in the correct amounts and sourcing larger quantities for cheaper becomes paramount.  :D
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Offline Steve in TX

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Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 10:30:04 AM »
Agreed, but im trying to brew professionally eventually, and since everything adds to the cost of the beer, learning to use the correct chemicals(lactic acid adds taste to beer in large quantities, phosphoric doesnt) in the correct amounts and sourcing larger quantities for cheaper becomes paramount.  :D


I know a few breweries that use lactic to acidify their water without harm.


Didn't Kai's experiments show that it takes about 5ml in 5 gallons to notice the flavor? You are using close to that at 20ml for a 1bbl. Most I have used is about 2ml in 5 gallons.


I understand pinching pennies. Looking at your last grain bill (Kolsch from the Software Eff Thread), you must of had $60 invested in malt alone for that beer. $0.50 is less than 1%. At least 10% of my costs go to water with an additional 15% to propane. I'm not sweating a $0.05-0.10 for lactic acid.

Edit - not looking to troll. Just saying, don't sweat the small stuff.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:38:29 AM by Steve in TX »

Offline dkfick

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 10:31:26 AM »
Here is where I bought mine... the 1 gallon... It looks untouched a year later lol...
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=phosphoric
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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 10:36:24 AM »
Here is where I bought mine... the 1 gallon... It looks untouched a year later lol...
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=phosphoric

they have the same stuff on amazon, i just wasnt sure if it would be the correct type of acid etc.  Thanks Man
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Offline dkfick

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 10:40:30 AM »
Yeah I got sick of buying jugs of that 10% stuff... the 85% stuff I rarely use more than 3ml in even the palest beers (though I am using RO water)
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Offline brewsumore

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Re: Sourcing Phosphoric Acid
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2014, 10:31:41 PM »
Here is where I bought mine... the 1 gallon... It looks untouched a year later lol...
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=phosphoric

I had checked Dudadiesel's site, and almost went with it, and should have.  I found a hyproponics pharmaceutical grade 85% phosphoric acid solution product by Advance Nutrients LLC (Canadian) named "PH Down" I purchased at a local hydroponics store.  Over the phone they quoted me a lower price than the $20 I ended up paying to get one liter of this specific brand, which is basically equivalent to the Dudadiesel product shipped except what I bought might include added dye, even though a previous check on the MSDS only listed phosphoric acid.  I haven't opened it yet.  Funny thing is that I can no longer find a link to the MSDS.

Here is what I bought as found on Amazon, and I'm confident it will be fine:
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Nutrients-pH-Down-Liter/dp/B003OUDTWE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405919699&sr=8-1&keywords=advanced+nutrients+ph+down